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Detailed response to CES Letter, Polygamy and Polyandry: Difference between revisions
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{{Resource Title|Response to "Polygamy & Polyandry Concerns & Questions"}}
{{H1
{{FAIRAnalysisHeader
|L=Detailed response to CES Letter, Polygamy and Polyandry
|title=[[../|Letter to a CES Director]]
|H=Detailed response to CES Letter, Polygamy and Polyandry
|author=
|S=
|noauthor=
|L1=
|section=Polygamy/Polyandry Concerns & Questions
|T=[[../|Letter to a CES Director]]
|previous=[[../Book of Abraham Concerns & Questions|Book of Abraham Concerns & Questions]]
|A=Jeremy Runnells
|next=[[../Prophets Concerns & Questions|Prophets Concerns & Questions]]
|<=[[../Book of Abraham Concerns & Questions|Book of Abraham Concerns & Questions]]
|notes=
|>=[[../Prophets Concerns & Questions|Prophets Concerns & Questions]]
}}
[[File:Chart CES Letter polygamy.png|center|frame]]
<onlyinclude>
{{H2
|L=Criticism of Mormonism/Online documents/Letter to a CES Director/Polygamy & Polyandry Concerns & Questions
|H=Response to section "Polygamy/Polyandry Concerns & Questions"
|S=Regarding Joseph's practice of polygamy, the author states that "Joseph Smith’s pattern of behavior or modus operandi for a period of at least 10 years of his adult life was to keep secrets, be deceptive, and be dishonest – both privately and publicly."
|L1=Response to claim: "Joseph Smith was married to at least 34 women"
|D1=Letter to a CES Director: Why I Lost My Testimony, April 2013
|L2=Response to claim: "Most members of the Church are completely unaware that this alleged...1831 revelation Joseph F. Smith is referring to was a secret (and still uncanonized) 'revelation' that Joseph and other men were to marry the descendants of the Lamanites"
|D2=Debunking FairMormon, July 2014
|L3=Response to claim: "Of those 34 women, 11 of them were married women of other living men"
|D3=Letter to a CES Director: Why I Lost My Testimony, April 2013
|L4=Response to claim: "Among them being Apostle Orson Hyde who was sent on his mission to dedicate Israel when Joseph secretly married his wife, Marinda Hyde"
|D4=Letter to a CES Director: Why I Lost My Testimony, April 2013
|L5=Response to claim: "Joseph was 37-years-old when he married 14-year-old Helen Mar Kimball"
|D5=Letter to a CES Director: Why I Lost My Testimony, April 2013
|L6=Response to claim: "Even by 19th century standards, this is pedophilia"
|D6=Letter to a CES Director: Why I Lost My Testimony, April 2013
|L7=Response to claim: "The Church now admits that Joseph Smith married 14-year-old Helen Mar Kimball in its October 2014 Plural Marriage in Kirtland and Nauvoo essay"
|D7=Letter to a CES Director: Why I Lost My Testimony, April 2013
|L8=Response to claim: "Among the women was a mother-daughter set and three sister sets"
|D8=Letter to a CES Director: Why I Lost My Testimony, April 2013
|L9=Response to claim: "Some of the marriages to these women included promises by Joseph of eternal life to the girls and their families"
|D9=Letter to a CES Director: Why I Lost My Testimony, April 2013
|L10=Response to claim: "Some of the marriages to these women included...threats of loss of salvation"
|D10=Letter to a CES Director: Why I Lost My Testimony, April 2013
|L11=Response to claim: "threats that he (Joseph) was going to be slain by an angel with a flaming sword if the girls didn’t marry him"
|D11=Letter to a CES Director: Why I Lost My Testimony, April 2013
|L12=Response to claim: "President Hinckley publicly stating that polygamy is not doctrinal"
|D12=Letter to a CES Director: Why I Lost My Testimony, April 2013
|L13=Response to claim: "D&C 132 is unequivocal on the point that polygamy is permitted only 'to multiply and replenish the earth' and 'bear the souls of men'"
|D13=Letter to a CES Director: Why I Lost My Testimony, April 2013
|L14=Response to claim: "These married women continued to live as husband and wife with their prior husband after marrying Joseph"
|D14=Letter to a CES Director: Why I Lost My Testimony, April 2013
|L15=Response to claim: "What a thing it is for a man to be accused of committing adultery, and having seven wives, when I can only find one"
|D15=Letter to a CES Director: Why I Lost My Testimony, April 2013
|L16=Response to claim: "Emma was unaware of most of Joseph’s plural marriages, at least until after the fact"
|D16=Letter to a CES Director: Why I Lost My Testimony, October 2014
|L17=Response to claim: "She certainly did not consent to most of them as required by D&C 132"
|D17=Letter to a CES Director: Why I Lost My Testimony, October 2014
|L18=Response to claim: "The Church’s new October 2014 Plural Marriage in Kirtland and Nauvoo essay acknowledges that Joseph Smith was a polygamist"
|D18=Letter to a CES Director: Why I Lost My Testimony, October 2014
|L19=Response to claim: "The following 1835 edition of Doctrine & Covenants revelations bans polygamy"
|D19=Letter to a CES Director: Why I Lost My Testimony, April 2013
|L20=Response to claim: "Unions without the knowledge or consent of the husband, in cases of polyandry"
|D20=Letter to a CES Director: Why I Lost My Testimony, April 2013
|L21=Response to claim: "Joseph’s marriage to Fanny Alger was described by Oliver Cowdery as a 'dirty, nasty, filthy affair'"
|D21=Letter to a CES Director: Why I Lost My Testimony, April 2013
|L22=Response to claim: "Joseph was practicing polygamy before the sealing authority was given"
|D22=Letter to a CES Director: Why I Lost My Testimony, April 2013
|L23=Response to claim: "A union with a newlywed and pregnant woman (Zina Huntingon)"
|D23=Letter to a CES Director: Why I Lost My Testimony, April 2013
|L24=Response to claim: Zina "married Joseph after being told Joseph’s life was in danger from an angel with a flaming sword"
|D24=Letter to a CES Director: Why I Lost My Testimony, April 2013
|L25=Response to claim: "there is no such thing as an insane polygamist god who demanded such sadistic, immoral, adulterous, despicable, and pedophilic behavior"
|D25=Letter to a CES Director: Why I Lost My Testimony, April 2013
|L26=Response to claim: "The secrecy of the marriages and the private and public denials by Joseph Smith are not congruent with honest behavior"
|D26=Letter to a CES Director: Why I Lost My Testimony, April 2013
|L27=Response to claim: "Joseph’s desire to keep this part of his life a secret is what ultimately contributed to his death when he ordered the destruction of the printing press"
|D27=Letter to a CES Director: Why I Lost My Testimony, April 2013
|L28=Response to claim: "The Many Wives of Joseph Smith: 11 Polyandrous Marriages"
|D28=Letter to a CES Director: Why I Lost My Testimony, April 2013
|L29=Response to claim: "Why is there no mention of God commanding Adam or Noah and/or their immediate male children to have many wives?"
|D29=Letter to a CES Director: Why I Lost My Testimony, April 2013
|L30=Response to claim: "Latter-day 'prophet, seer, and revelator' Lorenzo Snow strongly disagrees with FairMormon"
|D30=Debunking FAIR's Debunking, July 2014
|L31=Brian Hales: CES Letter 31 to 34 Polyandry
|D31=Letter to a CES Director, March 2015
|L32=LDS Truth Claims: Criticism from Polygamy/Polyandry
}}
</onlyinclude>
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==Response to claim: "Joseph Smith was married to at least 34 women"==
{{IndexClaimItemShort
|title=Letter to a CES Director (April 2013 revision)
|claim=Joseph Smith was married to at least 34 women.
}}
{{information|This is correct. Interested readers should see the linked pages to research the wives of Joseph Smith
|L=Criticism of Mormonism/Online documents/Letter to a CES Director/Polygamy & Polyandry Concerns & Questions
}}
 
'''Longer response(s) to criticism:'''
*[[Improvement Era (1946): "That Joseph Smith actually was the person who introduced plural marriage into the Church and that he practised it himself are amply proved by existing facts"]]
*[[Joseph Smith/Polygamy/Plural wives]]
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==Response to claim: "Most members of the Church are completely unaware that this alleged...1831 revelation Joseph F. Smith is referring to was a secret (and still uncanonized) 'revelation' that Joseph and other men were to marry the descendants of the Lamanites"==
{{IndexClaimItemShort
|title=Debunking FairMormon, July 2014
|claim=It’s unfortunate that the Church is not as open, straightforward, and transparent to their members and investigators today as Joseph F. Smith and the 1912 First Presidency were on Joseph Smith’s polygamy.
 
“…plural marriage was first revealed to Joseph Smith in 1831, but being forbidden to make it public, or teach it as a doctrine of the Gospel, at the time…”[the author is quoting FairMormon here]
 
Most members of the Church are completely unaware that this alleged (it was written down 30 years later in 1861 by William W. Phelps) 1831 revelation Joseph F. Smith is referring to was a secret (and still uncanonized) “revelation” that Joseph and other men were to marry the descendants of the Lamanites, or the Native Americans, to raise seed so “that their posterity may become white and delightsome.”
In addition to being written down 30 years after the fact, being an uncanonized revelation, and concerning the marrying of only Lamanite women, this 1831 revelation is also contradicted by passages in the 1835 Doctrine and Covenants (101:4, 13.7, and 65:3). Thus, FairMormon's position requires us to believe in a seemingly schizophrenic god who gave explicit commands against polygamy in revelations but who just a few years earlier told Joseph Smith that plural marriage is legitimate but to keep it a secret? Despite giving Joseph Smith contrary and opposite revelations a short time later? That this polygamy revelation in 1831 is for the purpose of raising seed with the Indians so that their posterity would “become white and delightsome”?
}}
{{disinformation|First, there is no indication within the quote we shared from Joseph F. Smith that he is referring to this event. Second, the best evidence suggests that the revelation on plural marriage was given incrementally starting with the Book of Mormon, continuing with his translation of the Bible (evidenced by the text of D&C 132), inculcated by angelic ministration, and finally implemented in the Nauvoo period. Third, the fact that the revelation wasn't written down until 30 years after the fact should have indicated to the author the dubious nature of its officialdom and his interpretation of events is contradicted by the documentable historical data.
|L=Criticism of Mormonism/Online documents/Letter to a CES Director/Polygamy & Polyandry Concerns & Questions
}}
 
'''Longer response(s) to criticism:'''
*[[Question: Did the Church suppress a revelation given to Joseph Smith in 1831 which encouraged the implementation of polygamy by intermarriage with the Indians in order to make them a “white and delightsome” people?]]
*[[Question: Was Ezra Booth commanded to take a wife from among the Indians?]]
*[[Question: When did Joseph Smith receive the revelation on plural marriage?]]
{{Back to top}}
 
==Response to claim: "Of those 34 women, 11 of them were married women of other living men"==
{{IndexClaimItemShort
|title=Letter to a CES Director (April 2013 revision)
|claim=Of those 34 women, 11 of them were married women of other living men.
}}
{{information|Joseph Smith was sealed to the wives of some living men. None of these appears to have been "for time," and none appear to have involved sexual relations, with the possible exception of one woman who had separated from her husband. In all other cases, the women continued to live with their earthly husbands after the sealing.
|L=Criticism of Mormonism/Online documents/Letter to a CES Director/Polygamy & Polyandry Concerns & Questions
}}
}}


==Quick Navigation==
'''Longer response(s) to criticism:'''
*[[Criticism of Mormonism/Online documents/Letter to a CES Director/Polygamy & Polyandry Concerns & Questions#"Joseph Smith was married to at least 34 women"|Response to section: "Joseph Smith was married to at least 34 women"]]
*[[Question: Was Joseph Smith married or sealed to women who were already married to other living men?]]
*[[Criticism of Mormonism/Online documents/Letter to a CES Director/Polygamy & Polyandry Concerns & Questions#"Of those 34 women, 11 of them were married women of other living men"|Response to section: "Of those 34 women, 11 of them were married women of other living men"]]
*[[Gospel Topics on LDS.org: "Joseph Smith was sealed to a number of women who were already married. Neither these women nor Joseph explained much about these sealings, though several women said they were for eternity alone"]]
*[[Criticism of Mormonism/Online documents/Letter to a CES Director/Polygamy & Polyandry Concerns & Questions#"Among them being Apostle Orson Hyde who was sent on his mission to dedicate Israel when Joseph secretly married his wife, Marinda Hyde"|Response to section: "Among them being Apostle Orson Hyde who was sent on his mission to dedicate Israel when Joseph secretly married his wife, Marinda Hyde"]]
*[[The Joseph Smith Papers: "Several later documents suggest that several women who were already married to other men were, like Marinda Hyde, married or sealed to Joseph Smith"]]
*[[Criticism of Mormonism/Online documents/Letter to a CES Director/Polygamy & Polyandry Concerns & Questions#"Joseph was 37-years-old when he married 14-year-old Helen Mar Kimball"|Response to section: "Joseph was 37-years-old when he married 14-year-old Helen Mar Kimball"]]
*[[Question: What is "Polyandry?"]]
*[[Criticism of Mormonism/Online documents/Letter to a CES Director/Polygamy & Polyandry Concerns & Questions#"Among the women was a mother-daughter set and three sister sets"|Response to section: "Among the women was a mother-daughter set and three sister sets"]]
*[[Question: What was the nature of Joseph Smith's "polyandrous" marriages?]]
*[[Criticism of Mormonism/Online documents/Letter to a CES Director/Polygamy & Polyandry Concerns & Questions#"Some of the marriages to these women included....threats of loss of salvation"|Response to section: "Some of the marriages to these women included....threats of loss of salvation"]]
*[[Question: Did Joseph Smith consummate any of these marriages with married women?]]
*[[Criticism of Mormonism/Online documents/Letter to a CES Director/Polygamy & Polyandry Concerns & Questions#"President Hinckley publicly stating that polygamy is not doctrinal"|Response to section: "President Hinckley publicly stating that polygamy is not doctrinal"]]
*[[Question: Did Joseph Smith have any children through any of his polyandrous marriages?]]
*[[Criticism of Mormonism/Online documents/Letter to a CES Director/Polygamy & Polyandry Concerns & Questions#"D&C 132 is unequivocal on the point that polygamy is permitted only 'to multiply and replenish the earth' and 'bear the souls of men'"|Response to section: "D&C 132 is unequivocal on the point that polygamy is permitted only 'to multiply and replenish the earth' and 'bear the souls of men'"]]
{{Back to top}}
*[[Criticism of Mormonism/Online documents/Letter to a CES Director/Polygamy & Polyandry Concerns & Questions#"These married women continued to live as husband and wife with their prior husband after marrying Joseph"|Response to section: "These married women continued to live as husband and wife with their prior husband after marrying Joseph"]]
*[[Criticism of Mormonism/Online documents/Letter to a CES Director/Polygamy & Polyandry Concerns & Questions#"A union with a newlywed and pregnant woman (Zina Huntingon)"|Response to section: "A union with a newlywed and pregnant woman (Zina Huntingon)"]]
*[[Criticism of Mormonism/Online documents/Letter to a CES Director/Polygamy & Polyandry Concerns & Questions#Zina "married Joseph after being told Joseph’s life was in danger from an angel with a flaming sword."|Response to section: Zina "married Joseph after being told Joseph’s life was in danger from an angel with a flaming sword."]]
*[[Criticism of Mormonism/Online documents/Letter to a CES Director/Polygamy & Polyandry Concerns & Questions#"The secrecy of the marriages and the private and public denials by Joseph Smith are not congruent with honest behavior"|Response to section: "The secrecy of the marriages and the private and public denials by Joseph Smith are not congruent with honest behavior"]]
*[[Criticism of Mormonism/Online documents/Letter to a CES Director/Polygamy & Polyandry Concerns & Questions#"Why is there no mention of God commanding Adam or Noah and/or their immediate male children to have many wives?"|Response to section: "Why is there no mention of God commanding Adam or Noah and/or their immediate male children to have many wives?"]]


=="Joseph Smith was married to at least 34 women"==
==Response to claim: "Among them being Apostle Orson Hyde who was sent on his mission to dedicate Israel when Joseph secretly married his wife, Marinda Hyde"==
{{CESLetterItem
{{IndexClaimItemShort
|claim=The author correctly notes that "Joseph Smith was married to at least 34 women".
|title=Letter to a CES Director (April 2013 revision)
|answer=
|claim=Among them being Apostle Orson Hyde who was sent on his mission to dedicate Israel when Joseph secretly married his wife, Marinda Hyde.
{{Church answer
|summary='''Question 18''': Was Joseph Smith, Jr., a polygamist?<br>
'''Answer''': Joseph Smith introduced and practiced plural marriage. The proofs of this are abundant and complete.
|publication=Improvement Era
|author=Charles W. Penrose
|title=Peculiar Questions Briefly Answered
|date=September 1912
|vol=15
|num=1
}}
}}
*{{Correct}} Joseph F. Smith confirms this:
{{propaganda|
<blockquote>
|spin=It isn't as simple as the critics wish to portray it.
The great and glorious principle of plural marriage was first revealed to Joseph Smith in 1831, but being forbidden to make it public, or to teach it as a doctrine of the Gospel, at that time, he confided the facts to only a very few of his intimate associates. Among them were Oliver Cowdery and Lyman E. Johnson, the latter confiding the fact to his traveling companion, Elder Orson Pratt, in the year 1832. (See Orson Pratt's testimony.)" (Andrew Jenson, ''The Historical Record'' 6 [Salt Lake City, Utah, May 1887]: 219)
|facts=There are multiple sealing dates - one after Orson had been away for at least one year, and the other after Orson had already returned and asked Joseph to seal him to a plural wife of his own. When Hyde returned, he not only resumed living with his wife Marinda, but they had children together.
</blockquote>
|L=Criticism of Mormonism/Online documents/Letter to a CES Director/Polygamy & Polyandry Concerns & Questions
}}
}}
{{false cause|Joseph did not send Orson away on a mission so that he could secretly marry his wife.}}
'''Longer response(s) to criticism:'''
*[[Question: What did Orson Hyde, the husband of Marinda Nancy Johnson, know about her sealing to Joseph Smith for eternity?]]
*[[Question: Did Joseph Smith send men on missions so that he could secretly marry their wives while they were gone?]]
*[[Question: Was Apostle Orson Hyde sent on a mission to dedicate Israel so that Joseph Smith could secretly marry his wife, Marinda Hyde, while he was away?]]
{{Back to top}}


=="Of those 34 women, 11 of them were married women of other living men"==
==Response to claim: "Joseph was 37-years-old when he married 14-year-old Helen Mar Kimball"==
{{CESLetterItem
{{IndexClaimItemShort
|claim=The author correctly notes that "Of those 34 women, 11 of them were married women of other living men."
|title=Letter to a CES Director (April 2013 revision)
|answer=
|claim=Joseph was 37-years-old when he married 14-year-old Helen Mar Kimball, twenty-three years his junior. Even by 19th century standards, this is pedophilia.
{{Church answer
|link=http://josephsmithpapers.org/doc/introduction-to-journals-volume-2
|author=The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints
|title=Nauvoo Journals, December 1841–April 1843
|publication=The Joseph Smith Papers
|summary=Several later documents suggest that several women who were already married to other men were, like Marinda Hyde, married or sealed to Joseph Smith. Available evidence indicates that some of these apparent polygynous/polyandrous marriages took place during the years covered by this journal. At least three of the women reportedly involved in these marriages—Patty Bartlett Sessions, Ruth Vose Sayers, and Sylvia Porter Lyon—are mentioned in the journal, though in contexts very much removed from plural marriage.58 Even fewer sources are extant for these complex relationships than are available for Smith’s marriages to unmarried women, and Smith’s revelations are silent on them. Having surveyed the available sources, historian Richard L. Bushman concludes that these polyandrous marriages—and perhaps other plural marriages of Joseph Smith—were primarily a means of binding other families to his for the spiritual benefit and mutual salvation of all involved.
}}
}}
*{{Correct}} Among Joseph's plural marriages and/or sealings, between eight to eleven of them were to women who were already married. Of the eight well-documented cases, five of the husbands were Latter-day Saints, and the other three were either not active in or not associated with the Church. In all cases, these women continued to live with their husbands, most of them doing so until their husbands died. These eternal marriages appear to have had little effect upon the lives of the women involved, with the exception that they would be sealed to Joseph in the afterlife rather than to their earthly husbands. {{ref|katich.1}}
{{misinformation|
*{{Answer}}The available evidence also does not support the claim that Joseph had intimate relations with these married women. Fawn Brodie, who repeatedly stated her belief that Joseph had intimate relations with many of his plural wives, identified several individuals that she thought “might” be children of Joseph Smith, Jr. Yet, even Brodie noted that “it is astonishing that evidence of other children than these has never come to light.” Brodie postulated, in spite of a complete lack of evidence, that Joseph must have been able to successfully practice some sort of primitive birth control, or that abortions must have been routinely employed.To date, DNA analysis has ruled out Joseph Smith as the father of any of the children of the women to whom he was sealed who were married to other men.
|mistake=All available evidence indicates that Joseph was sealed to Helen for eternity, and that it was at her father's request. If the union was also intended to be "for time" as well as eternity, the available evidence indicates that such marriages were not consummated until the wife had reached a certain age.
*'''Josephine Lyon''': In 1915, Sylvia Sessions Lyon's daughter, Josephine, signed a statement that in 1882 Sylvia "told me that I was the daughter of the Prophet Joseph Smith, she having been sealed to the Prophet at the time that her husband Mr. Lyon was out of fellowship with the Church." It is not known whether Sylvia was referring to her daughter as being a literal descendant of Joseph Smith, or if she was referring to the fact that she had been sealed to the prophet. In an article published in ''Mormon Historical Studies'', Brian C. Hales demonstrates that Sylvia considered herself divorced prior to marrying Joseph polygamously. [See: Hales, Brian C. "The Joseph Smith-Sylvia Sessions Plural Sealing: Polyandry or Polygyny?" Mormon Historical Studies 9/1 (Spring 2008): 41–57.] DNA research is ongoing but it is rendered more difficult since the Y chromosome evidence of paternal lineage is not present in females.
|facts=Helen continued to live with her parents. There is no evidence of sexual relations. On the contrary, the fact that Helen was not called upon to testify in the Temple Lot case, despite the fact that she was available for such testimony, is evidence ''against'' her ever having had sexual relations with Joseph. The Church only called upon those women to testify who could attest to the nature of Joseph's plural marriages. Helen went on to become a big supporter of plural marriage in her adult years.
|L=Criticism of Mormonism/Online documents/Letter to a CES Director/Polygamy & Polyandry Concerns & Questions
}}
}}
{| valign="top" border="1" style="width:100%; font-size:100%"
!width=10%|Mother
!width="45%"|Brodie’s claim (‘’No Man Knows My History’’, p. 301, 345, 465)
!width="45%"|Modern evidence
|-
|


==Buell==
'''Longer response(s) to criticism:'''
||Brodie claims that “the physiognomy revealed in a rare photograph of Oliver Buell seems to weight the balance overwhelmingly on the side of Joseph’s paternity.”
*[[Question: What were the circumstances surrounding the sealing of Helen Mar Kimball to Joseph Smith?]]
||Oliver Buell is not the son of Joseph Smith, Jr.
*[[Question: Was Helen Mar Kimball's marriage to Joseph Smith ever consummated?]]
*[[Question: Did Helen Mar Kimball "confess" to having marital relations with Joseph?]]
*[[Question: What were Helen Mar Kimball's views on plural marriage?]]
*[[Helen Mar Kimball: "I have encouraged and sustained my husband in the celestial order of marriage because I knew it was right"]]
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DNA research in 2007 confirmed Presendia Huntington Buell’s son Oliver, born sometime in 1838-1839, was the son of Norman Buell.{{ref|deseretnews1}} "Only 9 of the 23 genetic markers match when comparing the inferred Oliver Buell haplotype to that of Joseph Smith. Such a low degree of correlation between the two haplotypes provides strong evidence that they belong to two unrelated paternal lineages, thus excluding with high likelihood Joseph Smith Jr. as the biological father of Oliver N. Buell. Further weight is given to this observation by the close match of the inferred haplotype of Owen F. Buell to the independent Buell record in the SMGF data base, which genetic relationship dates back prior to Joseph Smith's era. Additionally, the two genetic profiles were run through a haplogroup predictor algorithm that assigned the Smith haplotypes to a cluster known as R1b and the cluster for the Buell's haplotypes to I1b2a, two deeply divergent clades that separated anciently, thus providing further evidence that the Oliver Buell and Joseph Smith lineages are not closely related" {{ref|JJHWA1}}
==Response to claim: "Even by 19th century standards, this is pedophilia"==
{{IndexClaimItemShort
|title=Letter to a CES Director (April 2013 revision)
|claim=[Regarding the sealing of Joseph to 14-year-old Helen Mar Kimball]: Even by 19th century standards, this is pedophilia.
}}
{{disinformation|
|falsehood=No, actually it isn't pedophilia.
|facts=Joseph being sealed to Helen does not meet the definition of "pedophilia." The term "pedophilia" is defined by the Encyclopedia Britannica as "psychosexual disorder in which an adult has sexual fantasies about or engages in sexual acts with a prepubescent child of the same or the opposite sex". Pedophilia requires that the adult involved have sexual acts with a prepubescent child.
|L=Criticism of Mormonism/Online documents/Letter to a CES Director/Polygamy & Polyandry Concerns & Questions
}}
{{appeal to emotion| While the term "pedophilia" is a favorite of some critics for its emotional punch, any supposed sexual interaction between Joseph and Helen appears only in the minds of critics, without supporting evidence.
}}


|-
|


==Alger==
'''Longer response(s) to criticism:'''
||Brodie states that “[t]here is some evidence that Fannie Alger bore Joseph a child in Kirtland.”
*[[Question: Was Joseph Smith's marriage to 14-year-old Helen Mar Kimball indicative of "pedophilia"?]]
||DNA research in 2005 confirmed Fanny Alger’s son Orrison Smith is not the son of Joseph Smith, Jr.{{ref|perego1}}
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|-
|


==Hancock==
==Response to claim: "The Church now admits that Joseph Smith married 14-year-old Helen Mar Kimball in its October 2014 Plural Marriage in Kirtland and Nauvoo essay"==
||”Legend among the descendants of Levi W. Hancock points to another son of the prophet. If the legend is true, the child was probably John Reed Hancock, born April 19, 1841.”
{{IndexClaimItemShort
|| Nothing is yet known regarding the patrilineage John Reed Hancock.
|title=Letter to a CES Director (October 2014 revision)
|claim=The Church now admits that Joseph Smith married 14-year-old Helen Mar Kimball in its October 2014 Plural Marriage in Kirtland and Nauvoo essay
}}
{{propaganda|
|spin=The idea that this was recently revealed is the critics' "spin," given that this information was provided by the Church back in 1882.  
|facts=The Church "admitted" this in 1882, over 130 years ago! Helen Mar Kimball Whitney wrote all about it in “Scenes in Nauvoo,” ''Woman’s Exponent'' 11, no. 5 (August 1, 1882)
|L=Criticism of Mormonism/Online documents/Letter to a CES Director/Polygamy & Polyandry Concerns & Questions
}}


John Reed's brother Mosiah is not the son of Joseph Smith, Jr.
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DNA research in 2007 confirmed Clarissa Hancock's son Mosiah, born 9 April 1834, was the son of Levi Hancock.{{ref|deseretnews2}} "A 12-marker haplotype was already available for a paternal descendant of Mosiah Hancock, generated by an independent commercial laboratory. A comparison of the 12 markers to the shortened Joseph Smith haplotype showed only 5 matches, indicating a low likelihood of a biological relationship between Mosiah and Joseph. Additionally, we queried the SMGF database with the 12 Ycs Hancock markers. Six independent records returned matching all 12 markers, all having the surname Hancock with documented connections to Mosiah's grandfather Thomas Hancock III." {{ref|JJHWA2}}
==Response to claim: "Among the women was a mother-daughter set and three sister sets"==
{{IndexClaimItemShort
|title=Letter to a CES Director (April 2013 revision)
|claim=Among the women [who were Joseph Smith's polygamous wives] was a mother-daughter set and three sister sets.
}}
{{propaganda|
|spin=For the shock value, the author has invoked a biblical prohibition under the Mosaic law and applied it to 19th century plural marriage.
|facts=Joseph Smith was not observing the biblical Mosaic Law, which was fulfilled and done away with at the time of Jesus Christ.
|L=Criticism of Mormonism/Online documents/Letter to a CES Director/Polygamy & Polyandry Concerns & Questions
}}


|-
'''Longer response(s) to criticism:'''
|
*[[Question: Does the Bible prohibit polygamous marriages involving a mother and daughter?]]
*[[Question: Did Joseph Smith being sealed to mothers, daughters and sisters violate a biblical prohibition?]]
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==Lightner==
==Response to claim: "Some of the marriages to these women included promises by Joseph of eternal life to the girls and their families"==
||The son of Mary Rollins Lightner “may as easily have been the prophet’s son as that of Adam Lightner.”
{{IndexClaimItemShort
|| George Algernon Lightner, born March 22, 1842, died as an infant and therefore had no descendants. DNA testing cannot help determine paternity.
|title=Letter to a CES Director (April 2013 revision)
|-
|claim=Some of the marriages to these women included promises by Joseph of eternal life to the girls and their families.
|
}}
==Hyde==
{{information|The principle of plural marriage was portrayed as a means of attaining eternal life.
||Mrs. Orson Hyde’s sons Orson and Frank “could have been Joseph’s sons.”
|L=Criticism of Mormonism/Online documents/Letter to a CES Director/Polygamy & Polyandry Concerns & Questions
|| Orson Washington Hyde, born November 9, 1843, died as an infant and therefore had no descendants. DNA testing cannot help determine paternity.  
}}
|-
|
==Pratt==
||Mrs. Parley P. Pratt’s son Moroni “might also be added to this list.”
|| Moroni Llewellyn Pratt is not the son of Joseph Smith, Jr.


DNA research in 2005 confirmed Mary Ann Frost Pratt's son Moroni, born 7 December 1844, was the son of Parley P. Pratt.{{ref|perego2}}
'''Longer response(s) to criticism:'''
|-
*[[Question: Were plural wives forced into the marriage?]]
|
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==Snow==
==Response to claim: "Some of the marriages to these women included...threats of loss of salvation"==
||”According to tradition,” Emma beat Eliza Snow and caused her to abort Joseph’s child.
{{IndexClaimItemShort
||Both LDS and non-LDS reviewers have found several flaws in the story about Eliza.{{ref|emmaeliza1}} Emma's biographers note that "Eliza continued to teach school for a month after her abrupt departure from the Smith household. Her own class attendance record shows that she did not miss a day during the months she taught the Smith children, which would be unlikely had she suffered a miscarriage."{{ref|emmaeliza2}} 
|title=Letter to a CES Director (April 2013 revision)
|-
|claim=Some of the marriages to these women included...threats of loss of salvation.
|
}}
{{propaganda|The references to loss of salvation have been hyped up.
|L=Criticism of Mormonism/Online documents/Letter to a CES Director/Polygamy & Polyandry Concerns & Questions
}}


==Jacobs==
'''Longer response(s) to criticism:'''
||Zina was “about seven months pregnant with Jacobs' child at the time of her marriage to the prophet.” (Brodie, p. 465) John D. Lee and William Hall stated that Zina had been “pregnant by Smith.”
*[[Question: Did Joseph Smith give a woman only one day to decide about entering a plural marriage, and would refusal mean terrible consequences?]]
|| Zebulon Jacobs is not the son of Joseph Smith, Jr.
*[[Question: Did any woman suffer consequences for turning down Joseph's proposal?]]
*[[Question: Were women put under "tremendous pressure" to accept a proposal of plural marriage?]]
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DNA research in 2005 confirmed Zina Diantha Huntington Jacobs's son Zebulon was the son of Henry Bailey Jacobs.{{ref|perego3}}
==Response to claim: "threats that he (Joseph) was going to be slain by an angel with a flaming sword if the girls didn’t marry him"==
|}
{{IndexClaimItemShort
|title=Letter to a CES Director
|claim=Some of the marriages to these women included...threats that he (Joseph) was going to be...<br><br>
slain by an angel with a <span style="color:blue">flaming</span> sword if the girls didn’t marry him. (April 2013) <br>
slain by an angel with a <span style="color:blue">drawn</span> sword if the girls didn't marry him.(October 2014)
<br><br>
<br><br>
[Zina Diantha Huntington Jacobs] was married for 7.5 months and was 6 months pregnant with her first husband, Henry Jacobs, when she married Joseph after being told Joseph’s life was...<br><br>
in danger from an angel with a <span style="color:blue">flaming</span> sword. (April 2013)<br>
in danger from an angel with a <span style="color:blue">drawn</span> sword. (October 2014)
}}
{{misinformation|
|mistake=There is no mention of a "flaming" sword. The author corrected this error, but still makes the mistake of stating that Joseph would be slain by the sword "if the girls didn't marry him."
|facts=The "drawn sword" references refer to Joseph's postponement the implementation of the ''practice'' of plural marriage, not "if the girls didn't marry him." Some of these women, in fact, refused.
|L=Criticism of Mormonism/Online documents/Letter to a CES Director/Polygamy & Polyandry Concerns & Questions
}}
'''Longer response(s) to criticism:'''
*[[Question: Did Joseph claim that an angel threatened him with a "drawn sword" or "flaming sword" if a woman refused to marry him?]]
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==Response to claim: "President Hinckley publicly stating that polygamy is not doctrinal"==
{{IndexClaimItemShort
|title=Letter to a CES Director (April 2013 revision)
|claim=A lot of members don’t realize that there is a set of very specific and bizarre rules outlined in Doctrine & Covenants 132 (still in LDS canon despite President Hinckley publicly stating that polygamy is not doctrinal) on how polygamy is to be practiced.
}}
{{propaganda|
The author wishes to imply that President Hinckley was lying when he said that polygamy was "not doctrinal." Polygamy is not doctrinal in the 21st century. We do not practice polygamy in the 21st century - it used to be doctrinal, and is no longer doctrinal.
|L=Criticism of Mormonism/Online documents/Letter to a CES Director/Polygamy & Polyandry Concerns & Questions
}}
'''Longer response(s) to criticism:'''
*[[Question: Did Gordon B. Hinckley claim that polygamy was "not doctrinal" on Larry King Live?]]
*[[Question: How can President Hinckley claim that polygamy is "not doctrinal" if it was a required practice in the 19th-Century Church?]]
*[[Gospel Topics: "Today, any person who practices plural marriage cannot become or remain a member of the Church"]]
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==Response to claim: "D&C 132 is unequivocal on the point that polygamy is permitted only 'to multiply and replenish the earth' and 'bear the souls of men'"==
{{IndexClaimItemShort
|title=Letter to a CES Director (April 2013 revision)
|claim=D&C 132 is unequivocal on the point that polygamy is permitted only 'to multiply and replenish the earth' and 'bear the souls of men'. .... D&C 132:63 very clearly states that the only purpose of polygamy is to 'multiply and replenish the earth' and 'bear the souls of men'.  Why did Joseph marry women who were already married? These women were obviously not virgins, which violated D&C 132.  Zina Huntington had been married seven and a half months and was six months pregnant with her first husband’s baby at the time she married Joseph; clearly she didn’t need any more help to 'bear the souls of men'.
}}
{{misinformation|
|mistake=Polygamy was not permitted ''only'' for the purpose of procreation.
|facts=Joseph established the practice of plural marriage as part of the "restoration of all things." The lack of children from Joseph's polygamous marriages demonstrates that.
|L=Criticism of Mormonism/Online documents/Letter to a CES Director/Polygamy & Polyandry Concerns & Questions
}}
{{composition-division|The author takes a statement dealing with the purpose of the practice of polygamy and assumes that it is the ''only'' reason for the practice.
}}
'''Longer response(s) to criticism:'''
*[[Question: Was the only purpose of polygamy to "multiply and replenish the earth" and "bear the souls of men"?]]
*[[Question: If the only purpose of polygamy was to "raise up seed," then why did Joseph not have children by his plural wives?]]
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==Response to claim: "These married women continued to live as husband and wife with their prior husband after marrying Joseph"==
{{IndexClaimItemShort
|title=Letter to a CES Director (April 2013 revision)
|claim=Joseph married 11 women who were already married. Multiple husbands = Polyandry. These married women continued to live as husband and wife with their prior husband after marrying Joseph.....Also, [D&C 132] verse 63 states that if the new wives are with another man after the polygamous marriage, they will be destroyed. Eleven of Joseph’s wives lived with their prior husbands after marrying Joseph Smith. Most of them lived on to old age. Why weren’t they “destroyed”?
}}
{{misinformation|
|mistake=The author conflates being sealed for eternity with being married for time.
|facts=Joseph's "polyandrous" wives continued to live with their current husbands because they were married to them until they died. In the early days of the Church, it was possible to be sealed for eternity to a different person than the one you were married to for time.
|L=Criticism of Mormonism/Online documents/Letter to a CES Director/Polygamy & Polyandry Concerns & Questions
}}
'''Longer response(s) to criticism:'''
*[[Question: Since Joseph Smith "married" the wives of 11 other men, why were those women not "destroyed" as specified in the Doctrine and Covenants since they continued to live with their "previous" husbands?]]
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==Response to claim: "What a thing it is for a man to be accused of committing adultery, and having seven wives, when I can only find one"==
{{IndexClaimItemShort
|title=Letter to a CES Director (April 2013 revision)
|claim=Joseph Smith said “…What a thing it is for a man to be accused of committing adultery, and having seven wives, when I can only find one. I am the same man, and as innocent as I was fourteen years ago; and I can prove them all perjurers.” – History of the Church, Vol. 6, Chapter 19, p. 411
}}
{{information|This is correct. Joseph was responding to accusations of adultery.
|L=Criticism of Mormonism/Online documents/Letter to a CES Director/Polygamy & Polyandry Concerns & Questions
}}
'''Longer response(s) to criticism:'''
*[[Question: Why did Joseph Smith say "I had not been married scarcely five minutes...before it was reported that I had seven wives"?]]
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==Response to claim: "Emma was unaware of most of Joseph’s plural marriages, at least until after the fact"==
{{IndexClaimItemShort
|title=Letter to a CES Director (October 2014 revision)
|claim=How about the consent of the first wife, which receives so much attention in D&C 132? Emma was unaware of most of Joseph’s plural marriages, at least until after the fact, which violated D&C 132.
}}
{{misinformation|
Due to a lack of documentation, it is not known whether or not Emma was unaware of "most" of Joseph's plural marriages. We know of a few that she was aware of, and a some that she was not aware of.
|L=Criticism of Mormonism/Online documents/Letter to a CES Director/Polygamy & Polyandry Concerns & Questions
}}
{{argument from silence|There is little recorded information to indicate what Emma knew. The critics simply choose to assume that she didn't know about "most" of these marriages.
}}
'''Longer response(s) to criticism:'''
*[[Question: Did Joseph hide his plural marriages from Emma, his first wife?]]
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==Response to claim: "She certainly did not consent to most of them as required by D&C 132"==
{{IndexClaimItemShort
|title=Letter to a CES Director (October 2014 revision)
|claim=[Emma] certainly did not consent to most of them as required by D&C 132
}}
{{misinformation|
Again, we do not know what Emma's knowledge was regarding "most" of Joseph's plural marriages. If she did not consent to them, then D&C 132, which the author cites, states that Joseph could proceed without her consent.
|L=Criticism of Mormonism/Online documents/Letter to a CES Director/Polygamy & Polyandry Concerns & Questions
}}
{{argument from silence|There is no record to support the assertion that Emma did not consent to "most" of these marriages. The author simply assumes that because Emma is known to have not consented to some of them, that she did not consent to most of them.
}}


=="Among them being Apostle Orson Hyde who was sent on his mission to dedicate Israel when Joseph secretly married his wife, Marinda Hyde"==
'''Longer response(s) to criticism:'''
{{CESLetterItem
*[[Question: Was Emma aware of the possibility that Joseph could take additional wives even without her consent?]]
|claim=The author states, "Among them being Apostle Orson Hyde who was sent on his mission to dedicate Israel when Joseph secretly married his wife, Marinda Hyde."
{{Back to top}}
|answer=
*{{Fact}}Nancy married future apostle Orson Hyde on 4 September 1834.  He was involved briefly with apostasy at Far West in the fall of 1838, but had returned to the Church by March 1839 following a dramatic vision in which he saw the consequence of continued rebellion. {{ref|fn28}}
*{{Fact}}Marinda was sealed to Joseph in April 1842, while Orson was on a mission.  Only antagonistic accounts of this sealing exist. {{ref|fn29}}  Of the four reports, two claim that Orson was aware of the sealing, and two claim that he was not. 
**Sidney Rigdon (1845) {{ref|fn30}}&mdash;Sidney claimed that Orson was unaware of marriage and that he refused to live with his wife when he found out. However, contrary to claim, Orson continued to live with Miranda and father children by her.
**William Hall{{ref|fn31}} (1852) {{ref|fn34}}&mdash;William Hall claimed that Joseph demanded Miranda and all Orson's money to let him back in the Church and that "Many jokes were cracked at his [Hyde's] expense." This is very unlikely—there is no record of others mocking Hyde; Hall is unreliable on other marriages as well. {{ref|fn32}}  Orson's return to the quorum was in June 1839, {{ref|fn33}} putting Hall's account two years too early for marriage.
**Ann Eliza Young (1876) {{ref|fn35}}&mdash;Ann Eliza Young claimed that Orson did not know of the marriage and that he was angry when he learned of it. She claimed that he swore he would not live with his wife, but did so anyway. Ann Eliza, however, was too young to have any first-hand knowledge of Nauvoo, her book's intent was clearly to titillate with stories of polygamous intrigue.  Claims that Brigham told Orson that she was only to be his wife for time, and Joseph's for eternity—but this is frankly false, since she was sealed to Orson in early 1846. {{ref|fn36}}  Ann Eliza also confuses the temporality, since she describes Hyde "in a furious passion," because "he thought it no harm for him to win the affection of another man's wife… but he did not propose having his rights interfered with even by the holy Prophet whose teachings he so implicitly followed" (326).  Yet, Orson did not begin practicing plural marriage until after he knew of Miranda's sealing to Joseph.
**John D. Lee (1877) {{ref|fn37}}&mdash;Lee's "Report said that Hyde's wife, with his consent, was sealed to Joseph for an eternal state, but I do not assert the fact." Lee's work was published posthumously and may have been altered by his anti-Mormon editor. {{ref|fn38}}
*{{Fact}}Unique to the Hyde's marriage is the fact that Marinda was sealed to Orson following Joseph's death.  All of the Prophet's other polyandrous wives were posthumously sealed to Joseph by proxy. {{ref|fn40}}
*{{Fact}}The Hydes were to divorce in 1870: "The precise reasons for the divorce are not known, but it appears that Orson was giving most of his attention to his younger wives at this time." {{ref|fn41}}
*{{Fact}}Two of Marinda's children have been suggested as potential children by Joseph, but this is very unlikely (see [[Joseph_Smith_and_polygamy/Children_of_polygamous_marriages/Book_chapter|here]]).


==Response to claim: "The Church’s new October 2014 Plural Marriage in Kirtland and Nauvoo essay acknowledges that Joseph Smith was a polygamist"==
{{IndexClaimItemShort
|title=Letter to a CES Director (October 2014 revision)
|claim=The Church’s new October 2014 Plural Marriage in Kirtland and Nauvoo essay acknowledges that Joseph Smith was a polygamist
}}
{{propaganda|This has never been a secret. More correctly stated: The Church's November 1946 issue of the ''Improvement Era'' acknowledges that Joseph Smith was a polygamist...almost 70 years ago.
|L=Criticism of Mormonism/Online documents/Letter to a CES Director/Polygamy & Polyandry Concerns & Questions
}}
}}


=="Joseph was 37-years-old when he married 14-year-old Helen Mar Kimball"==
'''Longer response(s) to criticism:'''
{{CESLetterItem
*[[Improvement Era (1946): "Did Joseph Smith Introduce Plural Marriage?...It is also possible, though the Church does not now permit it, to seal two living people for eternity only, with no association on earth"]]
|claim=The author states, "Joseph was 37-years-old when he married 14-year-old Helen Mar Kimball, twenty-three years his junior. Even by 19th century standards, this is pedophilia."
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|answer=
 
*{{antispeak|loaded}} The use of the term "pedophilia" is intended to generate a negative emotional response in the reader. There is no evidence that Helen ever cohabited with or had sexual relations with Joseph. Pedophila describes a sexual attraction to children. There is no evidence that Joseph was a pedophile.
==Response to claim: "The following 1835 edition of Doctrine & Covenants revelations bans polygamy"==
*{{Correct}} Joseph was indeed sealed to Helen Mar Kimball, and it was at her father's request.
{{IndexClaimItemShort
*{{Fact}} Helen Mar Kimball was sealed to Joseph Smith at the request of her father. According to Helen:
|title=Letter to a CES Director (April 2013 revision)
<blockquote>
|claim=The following 1835 edition of Doctrine & Covenants revelations bans polygamy:
My father was the first to introduce it to me, which had a similar effect to a sudden shock of a small earthquake. When he found (after the first outburst of displeasure for supposed injury) that I received it meekly, he took the first opportunity to introduce Sarah Ann [Whitney] to me as Joseph's wife.<br>&mdash;Helen Mar Kimball Whitney, 1828-1896, Autobiography (c. 1839-1846), "Life Incidents," ''Woman's Exponent'' 9-10 (1880-1882) and "Scenes and Incidents in Nauvoo," ''Woman's Exponent'' 11 (1882-83)) {{link|url=http://www.boap.org/LDS/Early-Saints/HWhitney.html}}
1835 Doctrine & Covenants 101:4:
</blockquote>
“Inasmuch as this Church of Christ has been reproached with the crime of fornication, and polygamy: we declare that we believe, that one man should have one wife; and one woman, but one husband, except in case of death, when either is at liberty to marry again.”
*{{Fact}} Helen continued to live with her parents after the sealing.
}}
*{{Fact}} After Joseph's death, Helen was married and had children.
{{information|This was added by Oliver Cowdery after he learned that plural marriage had been restored. After the Saints moved to Utah and the practice of plural marriage was made public, this section was removed and replaced by Section 132.
*{{Fact}}Unlike today, it was acceptable to be sealed to one person for eternity while being married for time to another person. It is not known if this was the case with Helen, however.
|L=Criticism of Mormonism/Online documents/Letter to a CES Director/Polygamy & Polyandry Concerns & Questions
*{{Answer}}Polygamous marriages often had other purposes than procreation—one such purpose was likely to tie faithful families together, and this seems to have been a purpose of Joseph's sealing to the daughter of a faithful Apostle. As Richard L. Bushman put it, "Joseph did not marry women to form a warm, human companionship, but to create a network of related wives, children, and kinsmen that would endure into the eternities....Like Abraham of old, Joseph yearned for familial plentitude. He did not lust for women so much as he lusted for kin." (Bushman, ''Rough Stone Rolling'', 440.)
}}
|quote=
 
*Helen is describing a period during the westward migration when (married monogamously) her first child died. Helen was upset by polygamy only because she saw the difficulties it placed on her mother.
'''Longer response(s) to criticism:'''
<blockquote>
*[[Question: Why did the 1835 Doctrine and Covenants include a statement of marriage that denied the practice of polygamy at a time when some were actually practicing it?]]
I had, in hours of temptation, when seeing the trials of my mother, felt to rebel. I hated polygamy in my heart, I had loved my baby more than my God, and mourned for it unreasonably....<br><br>&mdash; Augusta Joyce Crocheron (author and complier), Representative Women of Deseret, a book of biographical sketches to accompany the picture bearing the same title (Salt Lake City: J. C. Graham & Co., 1884).
*[[Question: Was Oliver Cowdery aware that some in the Church were practicing polygamy in 1835 at the time he authored the "Article on Marriage"?]]
</blockquote>
*[[Question: Was the practice of polygamy general knowledge among Latter-day Saints in 1835 when the "Article on Marriage" was published?]]
*Helen later praised the practice of polygamy:
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<blockquote>
 
I did not try to conceal the fact of its having been a trial, but confessed that it had been one of the severest of my life; but that it had also proven one of the greatest of blessings. I could truly say it had done the most towards making me a Saint and a free woman, in every sense of the word; and I knew many others who could say the same, and to whom it had proven one of the greatest boons--a "blessing in disguise."<br><br>&mdash;Helen Mar Kimball, ''Why We Practice Plural Marriage,'' 23-24. {{link|url=http://books.google.com/books?id=c872EUaDPdEC&pg=PP9&hl=en#v=onepage&q&f=false}} (Google Books).
==Response to claim: "Unions without the knowledge or consent of the husband, in cases of polyandry"==
</blockquote>
{{IndexClaimItemShort
*One of the trials was that Helen was not allowed participate in certain social events, such as dances.
|title=Letter to a CES Director (April 2013 revision)
<blockquote>
|claim=Joseph’s polygamy also included...Unions without the knowledge or consent of the husband, in cases of polyandry.
I felt quite sore over it, and thought it a very unkind act in father to allow William to go and enjoy the dance unrestrained with other of my companions, and fetter me down, for no girl danced better than I did, and I really felt it was too much to bear. It made the dull school more dull, and like a wild bird I longed for the freedom that was denied me; and thought to myself an abused child, and that it was pardonable if I did not murmur.
}}
I imagined that my happiness was all over and brooded over the sad memories of sweet departed joys and all manner of future woes, which (by the by) were of short duration, my bump of hope being too large to admit of my remaining long under the clouds. Besides my father was very kind and indulgent in other ways, and always took me with him when mother could not go, and it was not a very long time before I became satisfied that I was blessed in being under the control of so good and wise a parent who had taken counsel and thus saved me from evils, which some others in their youth and inexperience were exposed to though they thought no evil. Yet the busy tongue of scandal did not spare them. A moral may be drawn from this truthful story. "Children obey thy parents," etc. And also, "Have regard to thy name, for that shall continue with you above a thousand great treasures of gold." "A good life hath but few days; but a good name endureth forever.<br><br>&mdash;Helen Mar Whitney, ''Scenes and Incidents'', 90. {{link|url=http://www.boap.org/LDS/Early-Saints/HWhitney.html}}
{{misinformation|Each case was different, and the author simply makes a global assumption that none of the "earthly" husbands were aware of this. This provides greater "shock value." The actual data, however, demonstrates that many of the husbands were not only aware of this, but they approved of it, in some cases because they were not members of the Church and didn't believe in marriage after this life anyway.
</blockquote>
|L=Criticism of Mormonism/Online documents/Letter to a CES Director/Polygamy & Polyandry Concerns & Questions
|link=
}}
|subject=
 
|summary=
'''Longer response(s) to criticism:'''
*[[Question: Was Joseph Smith sealed or married to other men's wives without the knowledge or consent of their husband?]]
*[[Question: What did the husband of Ruth Vose Sayers know about her sealing to Joseph Smith for eternity?]]
*[[Question: What did the husband of Esther Dutcher know about her sealing to Joseph Smith for eternity?]]
*[[Question: What did the husband of Mary Elizabeth Rollins know about her sealing to Joseph Smith for eternity?]]
*[[Question: What did the husband of Presendia L. Huntington know about her sealing to Joseph Smith for eternity?]]
*[[Question: What did the husband of Sarah Kingsley know about her sealing to Joseph Smith for eternity?]]
*[[Question: What did the husband of Patty Bartlett know about her sealing to Joseph Smith for eternity?]]
*[[Question: What did the husband of Elizabeth Davis know about her sealing to Joseph Smith for eternity?]]
*[[Question: What did the husband of Lucinda Pendleton know about her sealing to Joseph Smith for eternity?]]
*[[Question: What did the husband of Elvira Annie Cowles know about her sealing to Joseph Smith for eternity?]]
*[[Question: What did the husband of Marinda Nancy Johnson know about her sealing to Joseph Smith for eternity?]]
*[[Question: What did the husband of Zina D. Huntington know about her sealing to Joseph Smith for eternity?]]
*[[Question: What did the husband of Sylvia Sessions know about her sealing to Joseph Smith for eternity?]]
*[[Question: What did the husband of Sarah Ann Whitney know about her sealing to Joseph Smith for eternity?]]
*[[Question: What did the husband of Mary Heron know about her sealing to Joseph Smith for eternity?]]
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==Response to claim: "Joseph’s marriage to Fanny Alger was described by Oliver Cowdery as a 'dirty, nasty, filthy affair'"==
{{IndexClaimItemShort
|title=Letter to a CES Director
|claim=
Joseph’s marriage to Fanny Alger was described by <span style="color:blue">his cousin</span>, Oliver Cowdery, as a “dirty, nasty, filthy affair." (April 2013)<br>
Joseph’s marriage to Fanny Alger was described by Oliver Cowdery as a “dirty, nasty, filthy affair” (October 2014)
|authorsources=<br>
#Richard L. Bushman, ''Rough Stone Rolling'', p. 323.
}}
{{information|Oliver did not approve of the restoration of plural marriage, and accused Joseph of adultery - one of the charges that was brought up when he was eventually excommunicated from the Church.
|L=Criticism of Mormonism/Online documents/Letter to a CES Director/Polygamy & Polyandry Concerns & Questions
}}
 
'''Longer response(s) to criticism:'''
*[[Question: Did Joseph Smith marry Fanny Alger as his first plural wife in 1833?]]
*[[Question: Did some of Joseph Smith's associates believe that Joseph Smith had an affair with Fanny Alger?]]
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==Response to claim: "Joseph was practicing polygamy before the sealing authority was given"==
{{IndexClaimItemShort
|title=Letter to a CES Director (April 2013 revision)
|claim=Joseph was practicing polygamy before the sealing authority was given
}}
{{information|Joseph and Fanny's marriage was a plural marriage, not an eternal marriage.
|L=Criticism of Mormonism/Online documents/Letter to a CES Director/Polygamy & Polyandry Concerns & Questions
}}
}}
{{false cause|The author assumes that the sealing power was required prior to the initiation of plural marriage.}}
'''Longer response(s) to criticism:'''
*[[Question: How could Joseph and Fanny have been married in 1831 if the sealing power had not yet been restored?]]
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=="Among the women was a mother-daughter set and three sister sets"==
==Response to claim: "A union with a newlywed and pregnant woman (Zina Huntingon)"==
{{CESLetterItem
{{IndexClaimItemShort
|claim=The author states, "Among the women was a mother-daughter set and three sister sets."
|title=Letter to a CES Director (April 2013 revision)
|answer=
|claim=[Joseph Smith married] a newlywed and pregnant woman (Zina Huntingon)....Zina Huntington had been married seven and a half months and was six months pregnant with her first husband’s baby at the time she married Joseph; clearly she didn’t need any more help to “bear the souls of men”.
*{{Correct}} The author is referring to a biblical prohibition under the Mosaic law against marrying a mother and daughter ("Neither shalt thou take a wife to her sister, to vex her, to uncover her nakedness, beside the other in her life time.") {{s||Leviticus|18|18}}, or marrying two sisters ("And if a man take a wife and her mother, it is wickedness: they shall be burnt with fire, both he and they; that there be no wickedness among you.") {{s||Leviticus|20|14}}.
}}
*{{Fact}} However, Joseph Smith did not restore the practice of plural marriage according to Mosaic law&mdash;plural marriage was practiced prior to the institution of the Mosaic law without these restrictions. A well-known example is Jacob, whose name was changed to Israel: He was married to the two sisters Rachel and Leah.
{{propaganda|Joseph was sealed to Zina for eternity, and she continued to live with her earthly husband Henry even after she was sealed to Joseph. The purpose of this sealing for eternity was not to "bear the souls of men."
*{{Fact}} It should also be noted that the biblical practice of levirate marriage, as defined by Hebrew law, required a man to take his childless deceased brother's wife as his own wife in order to produce offspring for his brother. This was also a case of marrying two sisters.
|L=Criticism of Mormonism/Online documents/Letter to a CES Director/Polygamy & Polyandry Concerns & Questions
}}
}}


=="Some of the marriages to these women included....threats of loss of salvation"==
'''Longer response(s) to criticism:'''
{{CESLetterItemShort
*[[Question: Why would Joseph be sealed to the wife of someone who was not only married to someone else, but pregnant with her husband's child?]]
|claim=Some of the marriages to these women included promises by Joseph of eternal life to the girls and their families, threats of loss of salvation, and threats that he (Joseph) was going to be slain by an angel with a flaming sword if the girls didn’t marry him.
*[[Question: Did Joseph Smith and Brigham Young steal Henry Jacobs' family?]]
*[[Question: What did the husband of Zina D. Huntington know about her sealing to Joseph Smith for eternity?]]
{{Back to top}}
 
==Response to claim: Zina "married Joseph after being told Joseph’s life was in danger from an angel with a flaming sword"==
{{IndexClaimItemShort
|title=Letter to a CES Director (April 2013 revision)
|claim=
Zina "married Joseph after being told Joseph’s life was in danger from an angel with a <span style="color:blue">flaming</span> sword" (April 2013)<br>
Zina "married Joseph after being told Joseph’s life was in danger from an angel with a <span style="color:blue">drawn</span> sword" (October 2014)
}}
{{misinformation|The "angel with a sword" reference refers to Joseph's postponement of the practice of polygamy, not his marriage to a specific individual. Zina Diantha Huntington Jacobs said that Joseph mentioned an angel with a drawn sword. The account of a "flaming" sword came from Eliza Snow and Orson F. Whitney.  
|L=Criticism of Mormonism/Online documents/Letter to a CES Director/Polygamy & Polyandry Concerns & Questions
}}
}}
{{:Joseph Smith/Polygamy/Did Joseph Smith coerce women to marry him}}


=="President Hinckley publicly stating that polygamy is not doctrinal"==
'''Longer response(s) to criticism:'''
{{CESLetterItemShort
*[[Question: Did Joseph claim that an angel threatened him with a "drawn sword" or "flaming sword" if a woman refused to marry him?]]
|claim=A lot of members don’t realize that there is a set of very specific and bizarre rules outlined in Doctrine & Covenants 132 (still in LDS canon despite President Hinckley publicly stating that polygamy is not doctrinal) on how polygamy is to be practiced.
{{Back to top}}
 
==Response to claim: "there is no such thing as an insane polygamist god who demanded such sadistic, immoral, adulterous, despicable, and pedophilic behavior"==
{{IndexClaimItemShort
|title=Letter to a CES Director (April 2013 revision)
|claim=there is no such thing as an insane polygamist god who demanded such sadistic, immoral, adulterous, despicable, and pedophilic behavior
}}
{{propaganda|The Merriam-Webster definition of "sadism" is "enjoyment that someone gets from being violent or cruel or from causing pain." The definition of "insane" is "mentally disordered." The author suggests that Latter-day Saints believe in a "mentally disordered" god who derives enjoyment from causing people pain and demanding the sexual abuse of prepubescent children. This is pure propaganda on the part of the author. Latter-day Saints do not believe in such a god.
}}
}}
{{:Mormonism and polygamy/Did President Gordon B. Hinckley state that polygamy was not doctrinal}}
{{appeal to emotion}}


=="D&C 132 is unequivocal on the point that polygamy is permitted only 'to multiply and replenish the earth' and 'bear the souls of men'"==
==Response to claim: "The secrecy of the marriages and the private and public denials by Joseph Smith are not congruent with honest behavior"==
{{CESLetterItem
{{IndexClaimItemShort
|claim=The author notes that, "D&C 132 is unequivocal on the point that polygamy is permitted only 'to multiply and replenish the earth' and 'bear the souls of men'." The author continues, "D&C 132:63 very clearly states that the only purpose of polygamy is to 'multiply and replenish the earth' and 'bear the souls of men'.  Why did Joseph marry women who were already married? These women were obviously not virgins, which violated D&C 132.  Zina Huntington had been married seven and a half months and was six months pregnant with her first husband’s baby at the time she married Joseph; clearly she didn’t need any more help to 'bear the souls of men'.
|title=Letter to a CES Director (April 2013 revision)
|answer=
|claim=The secrecy of the marriages and the private and public denials by Joseph Smith are not congruent with honest behavior.  Emma was unaware of most of these marriages. The Saints did not know what was going on behind the scenes as polygamy did not become common knowledge until 1852 when Brigham Young revealed it in Utah. Joseph Smith did everything he could to keep the practice in the dark.  
*{{Incorrect}} Polygamy was not permitted ''only'' for the purpose of procreation. Joseph established the practice of plural marriage as part of the "restoration of all things," and introduced it to a number of others within the Church. This alone may have been the purpose of Joseph's initiation of the practice. The establishment of the practice ultimately ''did'' have the effect of "raising up seed"...just not through Joseph Smith.
}}
*{{Fact}} There is no conclusive evidence to date of Joseph having had children by any of his plural wives, and DNA testing has ruled out most of those who were suspected of being such. 
{{propaganda|The secrecy of the practice wasn't because Joseph didn't ''try'' to teach the doctrine. It was because of the danger from others.
*{{Fact}} Among Joseph's plural marriages and/or sealings, between eight to eleven of them were to women who were already married. Of the eight well-documented cases, five of the husbands were Latter-day Saints, and the other three were either not active in or not associated with the Church. In all cases, these women continued to live with their husbands, most of them doing so until their husbands died. These eternal marriages appear to have had little effect upon the lives of the women involved, with the exception that they would be sealed to Joseph in the afterlife rather than to their earthly husbands. No children from these marriages have ever been identified. These were sealings which would only affect Joseph's association with these women in the afterlife.
|L=Criticism of Mormonism/Online documents/Letter to a CES Director/Polygamy & Polyandry Concerns & Questions
*{{Answer}} If the ''only'' purpose of polygamy, at least in Joseph Smith's case, was to "raise up seed," then why did Joseph not have children by his plural wives? He was certainly capable of having children, as demonstrated by those that he had by Emma, many of whom died.
|link=
|subject=
|summary=
}}
}}


=="These married women continued to live as husband and wife with their prior husband after marrying Joseph"==
'''Longer response(s) to criticism:'''
{{CESLetterItem
*[[Question: Did Joseph Smith ever publicly attempt to teach the doctrine of plural marriage?]]
|claim=The author states, "Joseph married 11 women who were already married. Multiple husbands = Polyandry. These married women continued to live as husband and wife with their prior husband after marrying Joseph.....Also, [D&C 132] verse 63 states that if the new wives are with another man after the polygamous marriage, they will be destroyed. Eleven of Joseph’s wives lived with their prior husbands after marrying Joseph Smith. Most of them lived on to old age. Why weren’t they “destroyed”?
*[[Question: Why did Joseph keep the doctrine of plural marriage private?]]
|answer=
*[[Question: Why did Joseph Smith say "I had not been married scarcely five minutes...before it was reported that I had seven wives"?]]
*{{Incorrect}} These married women continued to live as husband and wife with their ''current'' (not "prior") husbands. Being sealed to Joseph for eternity did not invalidate their existing marriage for time. They were still married to their current husbands for time. They were not "destroyed" for doing so. In the case of these married women, the marriages (i.e. the sealing) to Joseph would only have effect after death.
*[[Question: Was Joseph Smith ever charged with adultery under Illinois law?]]
*{{Correct}} Among Joseph's plural marriages and/or sealings, between eight to eleven of them were to women who were already married. Of the eight well-documented cases, five of the husbands were Latter-day Saints, and the other three were either not active in or not associated with the Church. In all cases, these women continued to live with their husbands, most of them doing so until their husbands died. These eternal marriages appear to have had little effect upon the lives of the women involved, with the exception that they would be sealed to Joseph in the afterlife rather than to their earthly husbands.  
*[[Question: Were there any similar cases under Illinois adultery statute which demonstrate that Joseph was not breaking the law?]]
|link=Joseph Smith/Polygamy/Polyandry
{{Back to top}}
|subject=Joseph Smith and polyandry
 
|summary= Joseph Smith was sealed to women who were married to men who were still living. Some of these men were even active members of the Church.
==Response to claim: "Joseph’s desire to keep this part of his life a secret is what ultimately contributed to his death when he ordered the destruction of the printing press"==
{{IndexClaimItemShort
|title=Letter to a CES Director (April 2013 revision)
|claim=Joseph’s desire to keep this part of his life a secret is what ultimately contributed to his death when he ordered the destruction of the printing press (Nauvoo Expositor) that dared expose his behavior in June 1844
}}
{{misinformation|Joseph was not keeping that part of his life secret - there were a number of his associates who were not only aware of the practice of plural marriage, but practiced it themselves. In the case of the Expositor, it talked of plural marriage in the most inflammatory terms, and Joseph recognized that it would cause major problems for Nauvoo.
|L=Criticism of Mormonism/Online documents/Letter to a CES Director/Polygamy & Polyandry Concerns & Questions
}}
}}


=="A union with a newlywed and pregnant woman (Zina Huntingon)"==
'''Longer response(s) to criticism:'''
{{CESLetterItem
*[[Question: Why did the Nauvoo City Council feel it was necessary to destroy the ''Nauvoo Expositor''?]]
|claim=The author notes that Joseph Smith married "a newlywed and pregnant woman (Zina Huntingon)....Zina Huntington had been married seven and a half months and was six months pregnant with her first husband’s baby at the time she married Joseph; clearly she didn’t need any more help to “bear the souls of men”."
*[[Question: How was the decision reached to destroy the ''Nauvoo Expositor''?]]
|answer=
*[[Question: Did Joseph Smith or his associates attempt to reconcile with William Law before he published the ''Nauvoo Expositor''?]]
*{{Fact}}In 1839, at age 18, Zina arrived with her parents in Nauvoo after being driven out of Missouri.  Faithful LDS missionary Henry Jacobs courted her during 1840–41.  At the same time, Joseph Smith had taught Zina the doctrine of plural marriage, and thrice asked her to marry him.  She declined each time, and she and Henry were wed 7 March 1841. {{ref|fn48}}
{{Back to top}}
*{{Fact}}Zina and Henry were married by John C. Bennett, then mayor of Nauvoo.  They had invited Joseph to perform the ceremony, but Bennett stepped in when Joseph did not arrive:
 
<blockquote>
==Response to claim: "The Many Wives of Joseph Smith: 11 Polyandrous Marriages"==
…Zina asked the Prophet to perform the marriage. They went to the Clerk’s office and the Prophet did not arrive, so they were married by John C. Bennett. When they saw Joseph they asked him why he didn’t come, and he told them the Lord had made it known to him that she was to be his Celestial wife. {{ref|fn49}}
{{IndexClaimItemShort
</blockquote>
|title=Letter to a CES Director (April 2013 revision)
*{{Conjecture}}Family tradition holds, then, that Zina and Henry were aware of Joseph's plural marriage teachings and his proposal to Zina.  While this perspective is late and after-the-fact, it is consistent with the Jacobs' behaviour thereafter.  Zina's family also wrote that Henry believed that "whatever the Prophet did was right, without making the wisdom of God's authorities bend to the reasoning of any man." {{ref|fn50}}
|claim=A "mormoninfographic" called "The Many Wives of Joseph Smith" is used in the Letter to a CES Director to illustrate Joseph Smith's "11 Polyandrous Marriages"  
*{{Fact}}On 27 October 1841, Zina was sealed to Joseph Smith by her brother, Dimick Huntington.  She was six months pregnant by Henry, and continued to live with him.
}}
*{{Fact}}Joseph Smith and Brigham Young's "mistreatment" of Henry and their "theft" of his family have received a great deal of publicity, thanks to late 19th century anti-Mormon sources, and Fawn Brodie increased their cachet for a 20th century audience.  These charges are examined in detail ([http://www.fairmormon.org/perspectives/fair-conferences/2006-fair-conference/2006-zina-and-her-men-an-examination-of-the-changing-marital-state-of-zina-diantha-huntington-jacobs-smith-young here]).  For present purposes, we will focus on Zina.  She had refused Joseph's suit three times, and chosen to marry Henry.  Why did she decide to be sealed to Joseph?
{{information|This section responds to a graphic illustrating Joseph Smith's "polyandrous" marriages.
*{{Fact}}When interrogated by a member of the RLDS Church, Zina refused to be drawn into specifics.  She made her motivations clear, and explained that God had prepared her mind for Joseph's teachings even before she had heard them:
|L=Criticism of Mormonism/Online documents/Letter to a CES Director/Polygamy & Polyandry Concerns & Questions
<blockquote>
:Q. "Can you give us the date of that marriage with Joseph Smith?"
:A. "No, sir, I could not."
:Q. "Not even the year?"
:A. "No, I do not remember. It was something too sacred to be talked about; it was more to me than life or death. I never breathed it for years. I will tell you the facts. I had dreams—I am no dreamer but I had dreams that I could not account for. I know this is the work of the Lord; it was revealed to me, even when young. Things were presented to my mind that I could not account for. When Joseph Smith revealed this order [Celestial marriage] I knew what it meant; the Lord was preparing my mind to receive it." {{ref|fn51}}
</blockquote>
*{{Fact}}Henry was to stand as proxy for Zina's post-martyrdom sealing to Joseph, and her marriage for time to Brigham Young.  He and Zina separated soon thereafter, and Henry was soon gone on one of his many missions for the Church.  (See [http://www.fairlds.org/FAIR_Conferences/2006_Zina_and_Her_Men.html here] for a more in-depth analysis of attacks on Brigham and Joseph regarding Zina and Henry.)
|quote=
Zina herself clearly explains the basis for her choice:
<blockquote>
…when I heard that God had revealed the law of Celestial marriage that we would have the privilege of associating in family relationships in the worlds to come, I searched the scriptures and by humble prayer to my Heavenly Father I obtained a testimony for myself that God had required that order to be established in his Church. {{ref|fn52}}
Faced with questions from her RLDS interviewer that she felt exceeded propriety, Zina became evasive.  She finally terminated the interview by saying, "Mr. Wight, you are speaking on the most sacred experiences of my life…."{{ref|fn53}}
</blockquote>
}}
}}


==Zina "married Joseph after being told Joseph’s life was in danger from an angel with a flaming sword."==
'''Longer response(s) to criticism:'''
{{CESLetterItem
{{:Response: Mormoninfographic:Lucinda Pendleton}}
|claim=The author states, "[Zina] was married for 7.5 months and was 6 months pregnant with her first husband, Henry Jacobs, when she married Joseph after being told Joseph’s life was in danger from an angel with a flaming sword."
*[[Question: What did the husband of Lucinda Pendleton know about her sealing to Joseph Smith for eternity?]]
|answer=
<!-- {{:Response: Mormoninfographic:Zina Huntington Jacobs}} -->
*{{Incorrect}}Zina said that Joseph mentioned an angel with a ''drawn'' sword. Joseph said nothing about an angel with a "flaming" sword to Zina. The account of a "flaming" sword came from Eliza Snow and Orson F. Whitney.
*[[Question: What did the husband of Zina D. Huntington know about her sealing to Joseph Smith for eternity?]]
*{{Fact}}The "angel with a sword" reference refers to Joseph's postponement of the practice of polygamy. Brian Hales notes that,
{{:Response: Mormoninfographic:Presendia Huntington Buell}}
<blockquote>
*[[Question: What did the husband of Presendia L. Huntington know about her sealing to Joseph Smith for eternity?]]
"Twenty-one accounts by nine polygamy insiders left recollections that the Prophet told of one specific reason: an angel with a sword who threatened him if he did not proceed. All nine witnesses could have heard the statement from the Prophet himself; however, the narratives themselves suggest that Benjamin F. Johnson and Eliza R. Snow may have been repeating information gathered from other people. Joseph Lee Robinson's narrative is difficult to date and his actual source is not clear. Lorenzo Snow, Erastus Snow, and Mary Elizabeth Rollins Lightner quote the Prophet directly and Mary Elizabeth provides details not available elsewhere. Unfortunately, with the possible exception of the Robinson account, all of the reminiscences date to at least twenty to thirty years after the event."
{{:Response: Mormoninfographic:Patty Bartlett}}
(Brian Hales, ''Joseph Smith's Polygamy: History'', 2:187.)
*[[Question: What did the husband of Patty Bartlett know about her sealing to Joseph Smith for eternity?]]
</blockquote>
{{:Response: Mormoninfographic:Sylvia Sessions}}
*{{Fact}}Here are the quotes attributed to Zina on the matter:
*[[Question: What did the husband of Sylvia Sessions know about her sealing to Joseph Smith for eternity?]]
<blockquote>
{{:Response: Mormoninfographic:Mary Elizabeth Rollins}}
''1881: Zina Huntington''&mdash;Zina D. Young told of Bro. Joseph's remark in relation to the revelation on celestial marriage. How an angel came to him with a drawn sword, and said if he did not obey this law he would lost his priesthood; and in the keeping of it he, Joseph, did not know but it would cost him his life. (Hales, ''Joseph Smith's Polygamy: History'' 2:190. Originally quoted in "The Prophet's Birthday," ''Deseret News'', January 12, 1881, 2.)
*[[Question: What did the husband of Mary Elizabeth Rollins know about her sealing to Joseph Smith for eternity?]]
<br><br>
{{:Response: Mormoninfographic:Sarah Kingsley}}
''1894: Zina Huntington''&mdash;[Joseph] sent word to me by my brother, saying, 'Tell Zina I put it off and put it off till an angel with a drawn sword stood by me and told me if I did not establish that principle upon the earth, I would lost my position and my life.'" (Hales, ''Joseph Smith's Polygamy: History'' 2:190. Originally quoted in "Joseph, the Prophet, His Life and Mission as Viewed by Intimate Acquaintances," ''Salt Lake Herald Church and Farm Supplement'', January 12, 1895, 212).
*[[Question: What did the husband of Sarah Kingsley know about her sealing to Joseph Smith for eternity?]]
</blockquote>
{{:Response: Mormoninfographic:Ruth Vose Sayers}}
*[[Question: What did the husband of Ruth Vose Sayers know about her sealing to Joseph Smith for eternity?]]
{{:Response: Mormoninfographic:Elvira Annie Cowles}}
*[[Question: What did the husband of Elvira Annie Cowles know about her sealing to Joseph Smith for eternity?]]
{{:Response: Mormoninfographic:Marinda Nancy Johnson}}
*[[Question: What did the husband of Marinda Nancy Johnson know about her sealing to Joseph Smith for eternity?]]
{{:Response: Mormoninfographic:Elizabeth Davis}}
*[[Question: What did the husband of Elizabeth Davis know about her sealing to Joseph Smith for eternity?]]
{{Back to top}}
 
==Response to claim: "Why is there no mention of God commanding Adam or Noah and/or their immediate male children to have many wives?"==
{{IndexClaimItemShort
|title=Letter to a CES Director (April 2013 revision)
|claim=If God commands polygamy in situations where a high birth rate is necessary, why is there no mention of God commanding Adam or Noah and/or their immediate male children to have many wives? (April 2013)<br><br>--Claim Deleted-- (October 2014)
}}
{{propaganda|
|spin=This claim is absurd, for obvious reasons. The author was correct to delete it in later revisions of his letter.
|L=Criticism of Mormonism/Online documents/Letter to a CES Director/Polygamy & Polyandry Concerns & Questions
}}
}}


=="The secrecy of the marriages and the private and public denials by Joseph Smith are not congruent with honest behavior"==
'''Longer response(s) to criticism:'''
{{CESLetterItem
*[[Question: If polygamy was commanded of God in order to "raise seed," then why were Adam and Noah not commanded to practice polygamy?]]
|claim=The author states, "The secrecy of the marriages and the private and public denials by Joseph Smith are not congruent with honest behavior. Emma was unaware of most of these marriages.  The Saints did not know what was going on behind the scenes as polygamy did not become common knowledge until 1852 when Brigham Young revealed it in Utah.  Joseph Smith did everything he could to keep the practice in the dark. "
{{Back to top}}
|answer=
 
*Joseph actually attempted to teach the doctrine at one point. A contemporary journal describes the reaction to Joseph's attempt to teach this doctrine:
==Response to claim: "Latter-day 'prophet, seer, and revelator' Lorenzo Snow strongly disagrees with FairMormon"==
{{IndexClaimItemShort
|title={{DebunkingFM}} (20 July 2014 revision)
|claim=Latter-day “prophet, seer, and revelator” Lorenzo Snow strongly disagrees with FairMormon. Snow states:
<blockquote>
<blockquote>
When the prophet “went to his dinner,” [Joseph Lee] Robinson wrote, “as it might be expected several of the first women of the church collected at the Prophet’s house with his wife [and] said thus to the prophet Joseph O mister Smith you have done it now it will never do it is all but Blassphemy you must take back what you have said to day is it is outrageous it would ruin us as a people.” So in the afternoon session Smith again took the stand, according to Robinson, and said “Brethren and Sisters I take back what we said this morning and leave it as though there had been nothing said.”{{ref|robinson1}}
A man that violated this law in the Doctrine and Covenants, 1835 edition, until the acceptance of that revelation by the church, violated the law of the church if he practiced plural marriage. Yes sir, he would have been cut off from the church, I think I should have been if I had. Before the giving of that revelation in 1843 if a man married more wives than one who were living at the same time, he would have been cut off from the church. It would have been adultery under the laws of the church and under the laws of the state, too. – Temple Lot Case, p.320-322
</blockquote>
*Joseph tried to teach the doctrine, but it was rejected by many Saints, including [[Emma_Smith_and_polygamy | Emma]], his wife.  Joseph then began to teach the doctrine privately to those who would obey.
*Keeping the doctrine private was also necessary because the enemies of the Church would have used it as another justification for their assault on the Saints. Orson Hyde looked back on the Nauvoo days and indicated what the consequences of disclosure would have been:
<blockquote>
In olden times they might have passed through the same circumstances as some of the Latter-day Saints had to in Illinois. What would it have done for us, if they had known that many of us had more than one wife when we lived in Illinois? They would have broken us up, doubtless, worse than they did.{{ref|hyde1}}
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
}}
}}
{{disinformation|Snow's testimony in the summary transcript that was created by the Reorganized Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints was designed to make it appear that polygamy was adultery. This was the position of the Reorganized Church. The original transcript, from which the summary was derived, makes no such claim.
|L=Criticism of Mormonism/Online documents/Letter to a CES Director/Polygamy & Polyandry Concerns & Questions
}}
'''Longer response(s) to criticism:'''
*[[Question: What is Lorenzo Snow claimed to have said about plural marriages being adultery prior to 1843?]]
*[[Question: Did Lorenzo Snow state that polygamy was actually adultery prior to 1843?]]
*[[Question: Are the original Temple Lot Case transcripts available online?]]
*[[Question: I've seen Temple Lot court transcripts online. Are these not accurate?]]
{{Back to top}}
==Brian Hales: CES Letter 31 to 34 Polyandry==
<embedvideo service="youtube">6qu5TRo79qU</embedvideo>
{{Back to top}}
==LDS Truth Claims: Criticism from Polygamy/Polyandry==
<embedvideo service="youtube">Wfw4jCebFAE</embedvideo>


=="Why is there no mention of God commanding Adam or Noah and/or their immediate male children to have many wives?"==
{{FAIRAnalysisHeader
{{CESLetterItem
|title=[[../|Letter to a CES Director]]
|claim=The author states, "If God commands polygamy in situations where a high birth rate is necessary, why is there no mention of God commanding Adam or Noah and/or their immediate male children to have many wives?"
|author=Jeremy Runnells
|answer=
|noauthor=
*This is a really odd question. How many marital choices does the author believe were ''available'' to Adam (descendants from two individuals) and Noah (descendants from eight individuals)? Or to their children?
|section=Polygamy & Polyandry Concerns & Questions
|previous=[[../Book of Abraham Concerns & Questions|Book of Abraham Concerns & Questions]]
|next=[[../Prophets Concerns & Questions|Prophets Concerns & Questions]]
|notes=
}}
}}
{{Back to top}}
<!-- PLEASE DO NOT REMOVE ANYTHING BELOW THIS LINE -->
[[Category:Letter to a CES Director]]


== ==
[[es:La crítica del mormonismo/Documentos en línea/Carta a un Director del SEI/Inquietudes y Preguntas de la Poligamia y Poliandria]]
{{Endnotes label}}
[[pt:A crítica do mormonismo/Documentos online/Carta a um Diretor SEI/A poligamia, poliandria - preocupações e perguntas]]
 
#{{note|katich.1}}Samuel Katich, [http://www.fairmormon.org/wp-content/uploads/2011/12/katich-a-tale-of-two-marriage-systems.pdf "A Tale of Two Marriage Systems: Perspectives on Polyandry and Joseph Smith,"] Foundation for Apologetic Information and Research, 2003.
#{{note|deseretnews1}}[http://deseretnews.com/article/1,5143,695226318,00.html DNA Tests rule out 2 as Smith descendants], ''Deseret News'' Nov. 10, 2007.
#{{note|JJHWA1}}Ugo A. Perego, Jayne E. Ekins, and Scott R. Woodward, "Resolving the Paternities of Oliver N. Buell and Mosiah L. Hancock through DNA," JJHWA, 133.
#{{note|perego1}}Ugo A. Perego, Natalie M. Myers, and Scott R. Woodward, “Reconstructing the Y-Chromosome of Joseph Smith Jr.: Genealogical Applications, ''Journal of Mormon History'' Vol. 32, No. 2 (Summer 2005) 70-88.
#{{note|deseretnews2}} ''Deseret News'', 2007.
#{{note|JJHWA1}}Ugo A. Perego, Jayne E. Ekins, and Scott R. Woodward, "Resolving the Paternities of Oliver N. Buell and Mosiah L. Hancock through DNA," JJHWA, 134-135.
#{{note|perego2}}Perego, Myers and Woodward, 2005.
#{{note|emmaeliza1}} This bit of folklore is explored in {{BYUS1|author=Maureen Ursenbach Beecher et al.|article=Emma and Eliza and the Stairs|vol=22|num=1|date=Fall 1982|start=86|end=96}}.  RLDS author Richard Price also argues that the physical layout of the Mansion House makes the story as reported by Charles C. Rich unlikely, see "Eliza Snow Was Not Pushed Down the Mansion House Stairs," in Richard Price. "Joseph Smith Fought Polygamy: How Men Nearest the Prophet Attached Polygamy to His Name in Order to Justify Their Own Polygamous Crimes." (n.p.: Price Publishing Company, 2001), chapter 9.  Price's dogmatic insistence that Joseph never taught plural marriage, however, cannot be sustained by the evidence.
#{{note|emmaeliza2}}Linda King Newell and Valeen Tippetts Avery, ''Mormon Enigma: Emma Hale Smith'', 2nd ed. (Urbana, Illinois: University of Illinois Press, 1994), 136.  See also discussion in Danel Bachman, "Plural Marriage Before the Death of Joseph Smith'' (Master's Thesis, Purdue University, 1975), 140n173.
#{{note|perego3}}Perego, Myers and Woodward, 2005.
#{{note|fn28}} {{Book:Compton:ISL/Short|pages=234}}
#{{note|fn29}} {{Book:Compton:ISL/Short|pages=238–239}}
#{{note|fn30}} J. GI SON DIVINE [Sidney Rigdon], "To the Sisters of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints," ''Latter Day Saint's Messenger and Advocate'' (Pittsburgh) 1/10 (15 March 1845): 154–158.
#{{note|fn31}} {{CriticalWork:Hall:Abominations of Mormonism/Full title|pages=113}}
#{{note|fn32}} {{Book:Compton:ISL/Short|pages=239}}
#{{note|fn33}} See {{Book:Smith:HC/Short|pages=345|vol=3}} {{Book:Roberts:CHC|pages=24–25n12|vol=2}} {{Book:Woodruff:Journal|vol=1|pages=340|date=25 June 1839}}
#{{note|fn34}} See {{Book:Compton:ISL/Short|pages=238}}
#{{note|fn35}} {{CriticalWork:Young:Wife No. 19/Full title|pages=324&ndash;326}}
#{{note|fn36}} {{Book:Compton:ISL/Short|pages=243}}: "Marinda was sealed to Orson Hyde, not Smith, for time and eternity on January 11, 1846."
#{{note|fn37}} {{CriticalWork:Lee:Mormonism Unvailed/Full title|pages=147}}
#{{note|fn38}} Need more citation info here
#{{note|fn40}} {{Book:Compton:ISL/Short|pages=240–242}}
#{{note|fn41}} {{Book:Compton:ISL/Short|pages=230–243}}
<!--Zina-->
#{{note|fn48}} {{Book:Compton:ISL/Short|pages=263–264}}
#{{note|fn49}} Allen L. Wyatt, "Zina and Her Men: An Examination of the Changing Marital State of Zina Diantha Huntington Jacobs Smith Young," in FAIR Conference (Salt Lake City, Utah: FAIR, 1st draft, 2006). I have a first draft of Wyatt’s paper that contains additional quotes and references, for which I am grateful.
#{{note|fn50}} Oa J. Cannon, "History of Henry Bailey Jacobs,"  (L. Tom Perry Special Collections, Brigham Young University, n.d.), 1; cited by Wyatt, "Zina and Her Men: An Examination of the Changing Marital State of Zina Diantha Huntington Jacobs Smith Young,"  (emphasis added). See also Van Wagoner, ''Mormon Polygamy'', 44; Van Wagoner, "Mormon Polyandry in Nauvoo," 78; {{Book:Compton:ISL/Short|pages=80}}
#{{note|fn51}} Cannon, "History of Henry Bailey Jacobs," 5; cited in Van Wagoner, ''Mormon Polygamy'', 44.
#{{note|fn52}} Interview of John Wight [RLDS] with Zina D.H. Young, October 1, 1898, "Evidence from Zina D. Huntington-Young," Saints’ Herald, 52 (11 January 1905), 29; cited in Wyatt, "Zina and Her Men: An Examination of the Changing Marital State of Zina Diantha Huntington Jacobs Smith Young,"  .
#{{note|fn53}} Autobiography of Zina D. Young, no date, part of the Zina Card Brown Family Collection (1806-1972), LDS Church Archives, MS 4780, box 2, folder 17, cited by Wyatt, "Zina and Her Men: An Examination of the Changing Marital State of Zina Diantha Huntington Jacobs Smith Young,"; John Wight with Zina D.H. Young, 1 October 1898, “Evidence from Zina D. Huntington-Young,” ''Saints Herald'', 52 (11 January 1905): 28

Latest revision as of 20:21, 13 April 2024

Detailed response to CES Letter, Polygamy and Polyandry



[[../Book of Abraham Concerns & Questions|Book of Abraham Concerns & Questions]]
A FAIR Analysis of: [[../|Letter to a CES Director]], a work by author: Jeremy Runnells
 		[[../Prophets Concerns & Questions|Prophets Concerns & Questions]]

Response to section "Polygamy/Polyandry Concerns & Questions"

Summary: Regarding Joseph's practice of polygamy, the author states that "Joseph Smith’s pattern of behavior or modus operandi for a period of at least 10 years of his adult life was to keep secrets, be deceptive, and be dishonest – both privately and publicly."


Jump to details:

Response to claim: "Joseph Smith was married to at least 34 women"

The author(s) of Letter to a CES Director (April 2013 revision) make(s) the following claim:

Joseph Smith was married to at least 34 women.

FAIR's Response

Fact checking results: This claim is based upon correct information - The author is providing knowledge concerning some particular fact, subject, or event

This is correct. Interested readers should see the linked pages to research the wives of Joseph Smith


Longer response(s) to criticism:

Response to claim: "Most members of the Church are completely unaware that this alleged...1831 revelation Joseph F. Smith is referring to was a secret (and still uncanonized) 'revelation' that Joseph and other men were to marry the descendants of the Lamanites"

The author(s) of Debunking FairMormon, July 2014 make(s) the following claim:

It’s unfortunate that the Church is not as open, straightforward, and transparent to their members and investigators today as Joseph F. Smith and the 1912 First Presidency were on Joseph Smith’s polygamy.

“…plural marriage was first revealed to Joseph Smith in 1831, but being forbidden to make it public, or teach it as a doctrine of the Gospel, at the time…”[the author is quoting FairMormon here]

Most members of the Church are completely unaware that this alleged (it was written down 30 years later in 1861 by William W. Phelps) 1831 revelation Joseph F. Smith is referring to was a secret (and still uncanonized) “revelation” that Joseph and other men were to marry the descendants of the Lamanites, or the Native Americans, to raise seed so “that their posterity may become white and delightsome.”

In addition to being written down 30 years after the fact, being an uncanonized revelation, and concerning the marrying of only Lamanite women, this 1831 revelation is also contradicted by passages in the 1835 Doctrine and Covenants (101:4, 13.7, and 65:3). Thus, FairMormon's position requires us to believe in a seemingly schizophrenic god who gave explicit commands against polygamy in revelations but who just a few years earlier told Joseph Smith that plural marriage is legitimate but to keep it a secret? Despite giving Joseph Smith contrary and opposite revelations a short time later? That this polygamy revelation in 1831 is for the purpose of raising seed with the Indians so that their posterity would “become white and delightsome”?

FAIR's Response

Fact checking results: This claim is false

First, there is no indication within the quote we shared from Joseph F. Smith that he is referring to this event. Second, the best evidence suggests that the revelation on plural marriage was given incrementally starting with the Book of Mormon, continuing with his translation of the Bible (evidenced by the text of D&C 132), inculcated by angelic ministration, and finally implemented in the Nauvoo period. Third, the fact that the revelation wasn't written down until 30 years after the fact should have indicated to the author the dubious nature of its officialdom and his interpretation of events is contradicted by the documentable historical data.


Longer response(s) to criticism:

Response to claim: "Of those 34 women, 11 of them were married women of other living men"

The author(s) of Letter to a CES Director (April 2013 revision) make(s) the following claim:

Of those 34 women, 11 of them were married women of other living men.

FAIR's Response

Fact checking results: This claim is based upon correct information - The author is providing knowledge concerning some particular fact, subject, or event

Joseph Smith was sealed to the wives of some living men. None of these appears to have been "for time," and none appear to have involved sexual relations, with the possible exception of one woman who had separated from her husband. In all other cases, the women continued to live with their earthly husbands after the sealing.


Longer response(s) to criticism:

Response to claim: "Among them being Apostle Orson Hyde who was sent on his mission to dedicate Israel when Joseph secretly married his wife, Marinda Hyde"

The author(s) of Letter to a CES Director (April 2013 revision) make(s) the following claim:

Among them being Apostle Orson Hyde who was sent on his mission to dedicate Israel when Joseph secretly married his wife, Marinda Hyde.

FAIR's Response

Fact checking results: This claim contains propaganda - The author, or the author's source, is providing information or ideas in a slanted way in order to instill a particular attitude or response in the reader

The spin: It isn't as simple as the critics wish to portray it.The facts: There are multiple sealing dates - one after Orson had been away for at least one year, and the other after Orson had already returned and asked Joseph to seal him to a plural wife of his own. When Hyde returned, he not only resumed living with his wife Marinda, but they had children together.

Logical Fallacy: False Cause—The author assumes that a real or perceived relationship between two events means that one caused the other.

Joseph did not send Orson away on a mission so that he could secretly marry his wife.


Longer response(s) to criticism:

Response to claim: "Joseph was 37-years-old when he married 14-year-old Helen Mar Kimball"

The author(s) of Letter to a CES Director (April 2013 revision) make(s) the following claim:

Joseph was 37-years-old when he married 14-year-old Helen Mar Kimball, twenty-three years his junior. Even by 19th century standards, this is pedophilia.

FAIR's Response

Fact checking results: The author has stated erroneous information or misinterpreted their sources

The mistake: All available evidence indicates that Joseph was sealed to Helen for eternity, and that it was at her father's request. If the union was also intended to be "for time" as well as eternity, the available evidence indicates that such marriages were not consummated until the wife had reached a certain age.The facts: Helen continued to live with her parents. There is no evidence of sexual relations. On the contrary, the fact that Helen was not called upon to testify in the Temple Lot case, despite the fact that she was available for such testimony, is evidence against her ever having had sexual relations with Joseph. The Church only called upon those women to testify who could attest to the nature of Joseph's plural marriages. Helen went on to become a big supporter of plural marriage in her adult years.


Longer response(s) to criticism:

Response to claim: "Even by 19th century standards, this is pedophilia"

The author(s) of Letter to a CES Director (April 2013 revision) make(s) the following claim:

[Regarding the sealing of Joseph to 14-year-old Helen Mar Kimball]: Even by 19th century standards, this is pedophilia.

FAIR's Response

Fact checking results: This claim is false

The falsehood: No, actually it isn't pedophilia.The facts: Joseph being sealed to Helen does not meet the definition of "pedophilia." The term "pedophilia" is defined by the Encyclopedia Britannica as "psychosexual disorder in which an adult has sexual fantasies about or engages in sexual acts with a prepubescent child of the same or the opposite sex". Pedophilia requires that the adult involved have sexual acts with a prepubescent child.

Logical Fallacy: Appeal to Emotion—The author attempts to manipulate the reader's emotional response instead of presenting a valid argument.

< While the term "pedophilia" is a favorite of some critics for its emotional punch, any supposed sexual interaction between Joseph and Helen appears only in the minds of critics, without supporting evidence.


Longer response(s) to criticism:

Response to claim: "The Church now admits that Joseph Smith married 14-year-old Helen Mar Kimball in its October 2014 Plural Marriage in Kirtland and Nauvoo essay"

The author(s) of Letter to a CES Director (October 2014 revision) make(s) the following claim:

The Church now admits that Joseph Smith married 14-year-old Helen Mar Kimball in its October 2014 Plural Marriage in Kirtland and Nauvoo essay

FAIR's Response

Fact checking results: This claim contains propaganda - The author, or the author's source, is providing information or ideas in a slanted way in order to instill a particular attitude or response in the reader

The spin: The idea that this was recently revealed is the critics' "spin," given that this information was provided by the Church back in 1882.The facts: The Church "admitted" this in 1882, over 130 years ago! Helen Mar Kimball Whitney wrote all about it in “Scenes in Nauvoo,” Woman’s Exponent 11, no. 5 (August 1, 1882)


Response to claim: "Among the women was a mother-daughter set and three sister sets"

The author(s) of Letter to a CES Director (April 2013 revision) make(s) the following claim:

Among the women [who were Joseph Smith's polygamous wives] was a mother-daughter set and three sister sets.

FAIR's Response

Fact checking results: This claim contains propaganda - The author, or the author's source, is providing information or ideas in a slanted way in order to instill a particular attitude or response in the reader

The spin: For the shock value, the author has invoked a biblical prohibition under the Mosaic law and applied it to 19th century plural marriage.The facts: Joseph Smith was not observing the biblical Mosaic Law, which was fulfilled and done away with at the time of Jesus Christ.


Longer response(s) to criticism:

Response to claim: "Some of the marriages to these women included promises by Joseph of eternal life to the girls and their families"

The author(s) of Letter to a CES Director (April 2013 revision) make(s) the following claim:

Some of the marriages to these women included promises by Joseph of eternal life to the girls and their families.

FAIR's Response

Fact checking results: This claim is based upon correct information - The author is providing knowledge concerning some particular fact, subject, or event

The principle of plural marriage was portrayed as a means of attaining eternal life.


Longer response(s) to criticism:

Response to claim: "Some of the marriages to these women included...threats of loss of salvation"

The author(s) of Letter to a CES Director (April 2013 revision) make(s) the following claim:

Some of the marriages to these women included...threats of loss of salvation.

FAIR's Response

Fact checking results: This claim contains propaganda - The author, or the author's source, is providing information or ideas in a slanted way in order to instill a particular attitude or response in the reader

The references to loss of salvation have been hyped up.


Longer response(s) to criticism:

Response to claim: "threats that he (Joseph) was going to be slain by an angel with a flaming sword if the girls didn’t marry him"

The author(s) of Letter to a CES Director make(s) the following claim:

Some of the marriages to these women included...threats that he (Joseph) was going to be...

slain by an angel with a flaming sword if the girls didn’t marry him. (April 2013)
slain by an angel with a drawn sword if the girls didn't marry him.(October 2014)

[Zina Diantha Huntington Jacobs] was married for 7.5 months and was 6 months pregnant with her first husband, Henry Jacobs, when she married Joseph after being told Joseph’s life was...

in danger from an angel with a flaming sword. (April 2013)

in danger from an angel with a drawn sword. (October 2014)

FAIR's Response

Fact checking results: The author has stated erroneous information or misinterpreted their sources

The mistake: There is no mention of a "flaming" sword. The author corrected this error, but still makes the mistake of stating that Joseph would be slain by the sword "if the girls didn't marry him."The facts: The "drawn sword" references refer to Joseph's postponement the implementation of the practice of plural marriage, not "if the girls didn't marry him." Some of these women, in fact, refused.


Longer response(s) to criticism:

Response to claim: "President Hinckley publicly stating that polygamy is not doctrinal"

The author(s) of Letter to a CES Director (April 2013 revision) make(s) the following claim:

A lot of members don’t realize that there is a set of very specific and bizarre rules outlined in Doctrine & Covenants 132 (still in LDS canon despite President Hinckley publicly stating that polygamy is not doctrinal) on how polygamy is to be practiced.

FAIR's Response

Fact checking results: This claim contains propaganda - The author, or the author's source, is providing information or ideas in a slanted way in order to instill a particular attitude or response in the reader

The author wishes to imply that President Hinckley was lying when he said that polygamy was "not doctrinal." Polygamy is not doctrinal in the 21st century. We do not practice polygamy in the 21st century - it used to be doctrinal, and is no longer doctrinal.


Longer response(s) to criticism:

Response to claim: "D&C 132 is unequivocal on the point that polygamy is permitted only 'to multiply and replenish the earth' and 'bear the souls of men'"

The author(s) of Letter to a CES Director (April 2013 revision) make(s) the following claim:

D&C 132 is unequivocal on the point that polygamy is permitted only 'to multiply and replenish the earth' and 'bear the souls of men'. .... D&C 132:63 very clearly states that the only purpose of polygamy is to 'multiply and replenish the earth' and 'bear the souls of men'. Why did Joseph marry women who were already married? These women were obviously not virgins, which violated D&C 132. Zina Huntington had been married seven and a half months and was six months pregnant with her first husband’s baby at the time she married Joseph; clearly she didn’t need any more help to 'bear the souls of men'.

FAIR's Response

Fact checking results: The author has stated erroneous information or misinterpreted their sources

The mistake: Polygamy was not permitted only for the purpose of procreation.The facts: Joseph established the practice of plural marriage as part of the "restoration of all things." The lack of children from Joseph's polygamous marriages demonstrates that.

Logical Fallacy: Composition/Division—The author assumed that one part of something had to be applied to everything.

The author takes a statement dealing with the purpose of the practice of polygamy and assumes that it is the only reason for the practice.


Longer response(s) to criticism:

Response to claim: "These married women continued to live as husband and wife with their prior husband after marrying Joseph"

The author(s) of Letter to a CES Director (April 2013 revision) make(s) the following claim:

Joseph married 11 women who were already married. Multiple husbands = Polyandry. These married women continued to live as husband and wife with their prior husband after marrying Joseph.....Also, [D&C 132] verse 63 states that if the new wives are with another man after the polygamous marriage, they will be destroyed. Eleven of Joseph’s wives lived with their prior husbands after marrying Joseph Smith. Most of them lived on to old age. Why weren’t they “destroyed”?

FAIR's Response

Fact checking results: The author has stated erroneous information or misinterpreted their sources

The mistake: The author conflates being sealed for eternity with being married for time.The facts: Joseph's "polyandrous" wives continued to live with their current husbands because they were married to them until they died. In the early days of the Church, it was possible to be sealed for eternity to a different person than the one you were married to for time.


Longer response(s) to criticism:

Response to claim: "What a thing it is for a man to be accused of committing adultery, and having seven wives, when I can only find one"

The author(s) of Letter to a CES Director (April 2013 revision) make(s) the following claim:

Joseph Smith said “…What a thing it is for a man to be accused of committing adultery, and having seven wives, when I can only find one. I am the same man, and as innocent as I was fourteen years ago; and I can prove them all perjurers.” – History of the Church, Vol. 6, Chapter 19, p. 411

FAIR's Response

Fact checking results: This claim is based upon correct information - The author is providing knowledge concerning some particular fact, subject, or event

This is correct. Joseph was responding to accusations of adultery.


Longer response(s) to criticism:

Response to claim: "Emma was unaware of most of Joseph’s plural marriages, at least until after the fact"

The author(s) of Letter to a CES Director (October 2014 revision) make(s) the following claim:

How about the consent of the first wife, which receives so much attention in D&C 132? Emma was unaware of most of Joseph’s plural marriages, at least until after the fact, which violated D&C 132.

FAIR's Response

Fact checking results: The author has stated erroneous information or misinterpreted their sources

Due to a lack of documentation, it is not known whether or not Emma was unaware of "most" of Joseph's plural marriages. We know of a few that she was aware of, and a some that she was not aware of.

Logical Fallacy: Argument from Silence—The author has formed a conclusion that is based on the absence of statements in historical documents, rather than on their actual presence.

There is little recorded information to indicate what Emma knew. The critics simply choose to assume that she didn't know about "most" of these marriages.


Longer response(s) to criticism:

Response to claim: "She certainly did not consent to most of them as required by D&C 132"

The author(s) of Letter to a CES Director (October 2014 revision) make(s) the following claim:

[Emma] certainly did not consent to most of them as required by D&C 132

FAIR's Response

Fact checking results: The author has stated erroneous information or misinterpreted their sources

Again, we do not know what Emma's knowledge was regarding "most" of Joseph's plural marriages. If she did not consent to them, then D&C 132, which the author cites, states that Joseph could proceed without her consent.

Logical Fallacy: Argument from Silence—The author has formed a conclusion that is based on the absence of statements in historical documents, rather than on their actual presence.

There is no record to support the assertion that Emma did not consent to "most" of these marriages. The author simply assumes that because Emma is known to have not consented to some of them, that she did not consent to most of them.


Longer response(s) to criticism:

Response to claim: "The Church’s new October 2014 Plural Marriage in Kirtland and Nauvoo essay acknowledges that Joseph Smith was a polygamist"

The author(s) of Letter to a CES Director (October 2014 revision) make(s) the following claim:

The Church’s new October 2014 Plural Marriage in Kirtland and Nauvoo essay acknowledges that Joseph Smith was a polygamist

FAIR's Response

Fact checking results: This claim contains propaganda - The author, or the author's source, is providing information or ideas in a slanted way in order to instill a particular attitude or response in the reader

This has never been a secret. More correctly stated: The Church's November 1946 issue of the Improvement Era acknowledges that Joseph Smith was a polygamist...almost 70 years ago.


Longer response(s) to criticism:

Response to claim: "The following 1835 edition of Doctrine & Covenants revelations bans polygamy"

The author(s) of Letter to a CES Director (April 2013 revision) make(s) the following claim:

The following 1835 edition of Doctrine & Covenants revelations bans polygamy:

1835 Doctrine & Covenants 101:4:

“Inasmuch as this Church of Christ has been reproached with the crime of fornication, and polygamy: we declare that we believe, that one man should have one wife; and one woman, but one husband, except in case of death, when either is at liberty to marry again.”

FAIR's Response

Fact checking results: This claim is based upon correct information - The author is providing knowledge concerning some particular fact, subject, or event

This was added by Oliver Cowdery after he learned that plural marriage had been restored. After the Saints moved to Utah and the practice of plural marriage was made public, this section was removed and replaced by Section 132.


Longer response(s) to criticism:

Response to claim: "Unions without the knowledge or consent of the husband, in cases of polyandry"

The author(s) of Letter to a CES Director (April 2013 revision) make(s) the following claim:

Joseph’s polygamy also included...Unions without the knowledge or consent of the husband, in cases of polyandry.

FAIR's Response

Fact checking results: The author has stated erroneous information or misinterpreted their sources

Each case was different, and the author simply makes a global assumption that none of the "earthly" husbands were aware of this. This provides greater "shock value." The actual data, however, demonstrates that many of the husbands were not only aware of this, but they approved of it, in some cases because they were not members of the Church and didn't believe in marriage after this life anyway.


Longer response(s) to criticism:

Response to claim: "Joseph’s marriage to Fanny Alger was described by Oliver Cowdery as a 'dirty, nasty, filthy affair'"

The author(s) of Letter to a CES Director make(s) the following claim:

Joseph’s marriage to Fanny Alger was described by his cousin, Oliver Cowdery, as a “dirty, nasty, filthy affair." (April 2013)
Joseph’s marriage to Fanny Alger was described by Oliver Cowdery as a “dirty, nasty, filthy affair” (October 2014)

Author's sources:
  1. Richard L. Bushman, Rough Stone Rolling, p. 323.

FAIR's Response

Fact checking results: This claim is based upon correct information - The author is providing knowledge concerning some particular fact, subject, or event

Oliver did not approve of the restoration of plural marriage, and accused Joseph of adultery - one of the charges that was brought up when he was eventually excommunicated from the Church.


Longer response(s) to criticism:

Response to claim: "Joseph was practicing polygamy before the sealing authority was given"

The author(s) of Letter to a CES Director (April 2013 revision) make(s) the following claim:

Joseph was practicing polygamy before the sealing authority was given

FAIR's Response

Fact checking results: This claim is based upon correct information - The author is providing knowledge concerning some particular fact, subject, or event

Joseph and Fanny's marriage was a plural marriage, not an eternal marriage.

Logical Fallacy: False Cause—The author assumes that a real or perceived relationship between two events means that one caused the other.

The author assumes that the sealing power was required prior to the initiation of plural marriage.


Longer response(s) to criticism:

Response to claim: "A union with a newlywed and pregnant woman (Zina Huntingon)"

The author(s) of Letter to a CES Director (April 2013 revision) make(s) the following claim:

[Joseph Smith married] a newlywed and pregnant woman (Zina Huntingon)....Zina Huntington had been married seven and a half months and was six months pregnant with her first husband’s baby at the time she married Joseph; clearly she didn’t need any more help to “bear the souls of men”.

FAIR's Response

Fact checking results: This claim contains propaganda - The author, or the author's source, is providing information or ideas in a slanted way in order to instill a particular attitude or response in the reader

Joseph was sealed to Zina for eternity, and she continued to live with her earthly husband Henry even after she was sealed to Joseph. The purpose of this sealing for eternity was not to "bear the souls of men."


Longer response(s) to criticism:

Response to claim: Zina "married Joseph after being told Joseph’s life was in danger from an angel with a flaming sword"

The author(s) of Letter to a CES Director (April 2013 revision) make(s) the following claim:

Zina "married Joseph after being told Joseph’s life was in danger from an angel with a flaming sword" (April 2013)
Zina "married Joseph after being told Joseph’s life was in danger from an angel with a drawn sword" (October 2014)

FAIR's Response

Fact checking results: The author has stated erroneous information or misinterpreted their sources

The "angel with a sword" reference refers to Joseph's postponement of the practice of polygamy, not his marriage to a specific individual. Zina Diantha Huntington Jacobs said that Joseph mentioned an angel with a drawn sword. The account of a "flaming" sword came from Eliza Snow and Orson F. Whitney.


Longer response(s) to criticism:

Response to claim: "there is no such thing as an insane polygamist god who demanded such sadistic, immoral, adulterous, despicable, and pedophilic behavior"

The author(s) of Letter to a CES Director (April 2013 revision) make(s) the following claim:

there is no such thing as an insane polygamist god who demanded such sadistic, immoral, adulterous, despicable, and pedophilic behavior

FAIR's Response

Fact checking results: This claim contains propaganda - The author, or the author's source, is providing information or ideas in a slanted way in order to instill a particular attitude or response in the reader

The Merriam-Webster definition of "sadism" is "enjoyment that someone gets from being violent or cruel or from causing pain." The definition of "insane" is "mentally disordered." The author suggests that Latter-day Saints believe in a "mentally disordered" god who derives enjoyment from causing people pain and demanding the sexual abuse of prepubescent children. This is pure propaganda on the part of the author. Latter-day Saints do not believe in such a god.

Logical Fallacy: Appeal to Emotion—The author attempts to manipulate the reader's emotional response instead of presenting a valid argument.

Response to claim: "The secrecy of the marriages and the private and public denials by Joseph Smith are not congruent with honest behavior"

The author(s) of Letter to a CES Director (April 2013 revision) make(s) the following claim:

The secrecy of the marriages and the private and public denials by Joseph Smith are not congruent with honest behavior. Emma was unaware of most of these marriages. The Saints did not know what was going on behind the scenes as polygamy did not become common knowledge until 1852 when Brigham Young revealed it in Utah. Joseph Smith did everything he could to keep the practice in the dark.

FAIR's Response

Fact checking results: This claim contains propaganda - The author, or the author's source, is providing information or ideas in a slanted way in order to instill a particular attitude or response in the reader

The secrecy of the practice wasn't because Joseph didn't try to teach the doctrine. It was because of the danger from others.


Longer response(s) to criticism:

Response to claim: "Joseph’s desire to keep this part of his life a secret is what ultimately contributed to his death when he ordered the destruction of the printing press"

The author(s) of Letter to a CES Director (April 2013 revision) make(s) the following claim:

Joseph’s desire to keep this part of his life a secret is what ultimately contributed to his death when he ordered the destruction of the printing press (Nauvoo Expositor) that dared expose his behavior in June 1844

FAIR's Response

Fact checking results: The author has stated erroneous information or misinterpreted their sources

Joseph was not keeping that part of his life secret - there were a number of his associates who were not only aware of the practice of plural marriage, but practiced it themselves. In the case of the Expositor, it talked of plural marriage in the most inflammatory terms, and Joseph recognized that it would cause major problems for Nauvoo.


Longer response(s) to criticism:

Response to claim: "The Many Wives of Joseph Smith: 11 Polyandrous Marriages"

The author(s) of Letter to a CES Director (April 2013 revision) make(s) the following claim:

A "mormoninfographic" called "The Many Wives of Joseph Smith" is used in the Letter to a CES Director to illustrate Joseph Smith's "11 Polyandrous Marriages"

FAIR's Response

Fact checking results: This claim is based upon correct information - The author is providing knowledge concerning some particular fact, subject, or event

This section responds to a graphic illustrating Joseph Smith's "polyandrous" marriages.


Longer response(s) to criticism:

A portion of a critical graphic "The Many Wives of Joseph Smith" from "mormoninfographics.com" with an explanation by FairMormon.
A portion of a critical graphic "The Many Wives of Joseph Smith" from "mormoninfographics.com" with an explanation by FairMormon.
A portion of a critical graphic "The Many Wives of Joseph Smith" from "mormoninfographics.com" with an explanation by FairMormon.
A portion of a critical graphic "The Many Wives of Joseph Smith" from "mormoninfographics.com" with an explanation by FairMormon.
A portion of a critical graphic "The Many Wives of Joseph Smith" from "mormoninfographics.com" with an explanation by FairMormon.
A portion of a critical graphic "The Many Wives of Joseph Smith" from "mormoninfographics.com" with an explanation by FairMormon.
A portion of a critical graphic "The Many Wives of Joseph Smith" from "mormoninfographics.com" with an explanation by FairMormon.
A portion of a critical graphic "The Many Wives of Joseph Smith" from "mormoninfographics.com" with an explanation by FairMormon.
A portion of a critical graphic "The Many Wives of Joseph Smith" from "mormoninfographics.com" with an explanation by FairMormon.
A portion of a critical graphic "The Many Wives of Joseph Smith" from "mormoninfographics.com" with an explanation by FairMormon.

Response to claim: "Why is there no mention of God commanding Adam or Noah and/or their immediate male children to have many wives?"

The author(s) of Letter to a CES Director (April 2013 revision) make(s) the following claim:

If God commands polygamy in situations where a high birth rate is necessary, why is there no mention of God commanding Adam or Noah and/or their immediate male children to have many wives? (April 2013)

--Claim Deleted-- (October 2014)

FAIR's Response

Fact checking results: This claim contains propaganda - The author, or the author's source, is providing information or ideas in a slanted way in order to instill a particular attitude or response in the reader

The spin: This claim is absurd, for obvious reasons. The author was correct to delete it in later revisions of his letter.


Longer response(s) to criticism:

Response to claim: "Latter-day 'prophet, seer, and revelator' Lorenzo Snow strongly disagrees with FairMormon"

The author(s) of "Debunking FAIR’s Debunking" (also known as "Debunking FairMormon" - from the author of the Letter to a CES Director) (20 July 2014 revision) make(s) the following claim:

Latter-day “prophet, seer, and revelator” Lorenzo Snow strongly disagrees with FairMormon. Snow states:

A man that violated this law in the Doctrine and Covenants, 1835 edition, until the acceptance of that revelation by the church, violated the law of the church if he practiced plural marriage. Yes sir, he would have been cut off from the church, I think I should have been if I had. Before the giving of that revelation in 1843 if a man married more wives than one who were living at the same time, he would have been cut off from the church. It would have been adultery under the laws of the church and under the laws of the state, too. – Temple Lot Case, p.320-322

FAIR's Response

Fact checking results: This claim is false

Snow's testimony in the summary transcript that was created by the Reorganized Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints was designed to make it appear that polygamy was adultery. This was the position of the Reorganized Church. The original transcript, from which the summary was derived, makes no such claim.


Longer response(s) to criticism:

Brian Hales: CES Letter 31 to 34 Polyandry

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LDS Truth Claims: Criticism from Polygamy/Polyandry

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[[../Book of Abraham Concerns & Questions|Book of Abraham Concerns & Questions]]
A FAIR Analysis of:
[[../|Letter to a CES Director]]
A work by author: Jeremy Runnells
 [[../Prophets Concerns & Questions|Prophets Concerns & Questions]]
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