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{{Resource Title|A FairMormon Analysis of "Debunking FairMormon - Letter to a CES Director"}}
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|title=[[../|Letter to a CES Director]]
|L=Criticism of Mormonism/Online documents/Letter to a CES Director/Debunking FairMormon
|author=Jeremy Runnells
|H=A FairMormon Analysis of "Debunking FAIR’s Debunking" (also known as "Debunking FairMormon" - from the author of the Letter to a CES Director)
|noauthor=
|S=
|section=Debunking FairMormon
|L1=
|previous=
|T=[[../|Letter to a CES Director]]
|next=
|A=Jeremy Runnells
|notes=
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{{epigraph|'''Does FairMormon agree with a large percentage of the claims made in the Letter to the CES Director?'''<br>Jeremy Runnells has claimed that FairMormon has agreed with him on a large percentage of various claims he has made, even going so far as to claim agreement on items that FairMormon did ''not'' respond to. With regard to historical facts, Mr. Runnells's citations are sometimes incorrect and his interpretations, even of correctly cited historical facts, are unwarranted. In short, FairMormon disagrees entirely with the conclusions reached by Jeremy Runnells.
{{epigraph|'''Does FairMormon agree with a large percentage of the claims made in the Letter to the CES Director?'''<br>Jeremy Runnells has claimed that FairMormon has agreed with him on a large percentage of various claims he has made, even going so far as to claim agreement on items that FairMormon did ''not'' respond to. With regard to historical facts, Mr. Runnells's citations are sometimes incorrect and his interpretations, even of correctly cited historical facts, are unwarranted. In short, FairMormon disagrees entirely with the conclusions reached by Jeremy Runnells.
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==Overview==
==Overview==


Approximately eight or nine months after we produced our original response to the ''Letter to a CES Director'', the author produced an apologetic called ''Debunking FAIR's Debunking'', later changed to ''Debunking FairMormon''. Much of the material is simply an incorporation of our original summary responses to the individual issues, and the author's reassertion of his original claims. Our original summary responses to most of these issues have now been incorporated into the text of the full wiki articles that are now transcluded into the CES Letter response. There are, however, some new claims that originated in direct response to FairMormon. In this page we will highlight only new individual items which were not covered in the original CES Letter response. For convenience, these responses to ''Debunking FairMormon'' are also included in the list of responses to the original, and various updates, of the CES Letter.
Approximately eight or nine months after we produced our original response to the ''Letter to a CES Director'', the author produced an apologetic called ''Debunking FAIR's Debunking'', later changed to ''Debunking FairMormon''. Much of the material is simply an incorporation of our original summary responses to the individual issues, and the author's reassertion of his original claims. We have updated the original article responses to incorporate new evidence that the author of the CES Letter marshaled to attempt to bolster his original claims. Additionally, we have responded to new claims that appeared from the author that were not included in neither the original CES Letter, our response to it, nor the subsequent editions of the CES Letter. In this page we will highlight only new individual items which were not covered in the original CES Letter response (but as stated before, we have updated other articles to respond to other evidence covering the same claims). For convenience, these responses to ''Debunking FairMormon'' are also included in the list of responses to the original, and various updates, of the CES Letter.


==Detailed responses by section are found in linked subarticles below==
==Detailed responses to {{DebunkingFM}} by section are found in linked subarticles below==
==== ====
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{{SummaryItem
{{SummaryItem
|link=Criticism of Mormonism/Online documents/Letter to a CES Director/Book of Mormon Concerns & Questions  
|link=Criticism of Mormonism/Online documents/Letter to a CES Director/Book of Mormon Concerns & Questions  
|subject=Response to section "Book of Mormon Concerns & Questions"  
|subject=Response to section "Book of Mormon Concerns & Questions"  
|summary=The author asks why italicized text and errors from the King James Bible are present in the Book of Mormon. He also briefly discusses anachronisms, archaeology, and a theory that the Book of Mormon place names actually originated in the area around New York. The "View of the Hebrews" theory of Book of Mormon authorship is discussed.
|summary=
|sublink1=Response to claim: "That the witnesses never reported Joseph looking at a 1769 KJV Bible during the translation process actually enhances the likelihood that the Book of Mormon is a fraud"
|L1=Response to claim: "That the witnesses never reported Joseph looking at a 1769 KJV Bible during the translation process actually enhances the likelihood that the Book of Mormon is a fraud"
|sublink2=Response to claim: "At worst, Joseph waited until the witnesses weren't around to consult and copy from the 1769 KJV Bible"
|L2=Response to claim: "At worst, Joseph waited until the witnesses weren't around to consult and copy from the 1769 KJV Bible"
|sublink3=Response to claim: "Contrary to FairMormon’s assertion above that God himself revealed the 1769 KJV errors to Joseph, FairMormon is conceding here that Joseph copied KJV text over to the Book of Mormon"
|L3=Response to claim: "Contrary to FairMormon’s assertion above that God himself revealed the 1769 KJV errors to Joseph, FairMormon is conceding here that Joseph copied KJV text over to the Book of Mormon"
|sublink4=Response to claim: "If Joseph was trying to make the Bible more correct, he would not change something that was correct according to Isaiah"
|L4=Response to claim: "If Joseph was trying to make the Bible more correct, he would not change something that was correct according to Isaiah"
|sublink5=Response to claim: "FairMormon’s strawman that these towns/cities were discovered only through maps may not be...how Holley found some of the towns"
|L5=Response to claim: "FairMormon’s strawman that these towns/cities were discovered only through maps may not be...how Holley found some of the towns"
|L6=Response to claim: "The overwhelming consensus from these unbiased experts in pre-Columbian America archaeology/anthropology and Egyptology is that neither the Book of Mormon nor the Book of Abraham is historical, factual, or congruent to the current and existing data and evidence."
|L7=Response to claim: "In addition to the statements made by those professors, here are some more statements made by both LDS and non-LDS archaeologist and anthropologist individuals and organizations...'While some people chose to make claims for the Book of Mormon through archaeological evidences, to me they are made prematurely, and without sufficient knowledge.'"
|L8=Response to claim:"In addition to the statements made by those professors, here are some more statements made by both LDS and non-LDS archaeologist and anthropologist individuals and organizations...'The first myth we need to eliminate is that Book of Mormon archaeology exists…."
|L9=Response to claim: "There was a book published in 1791 by John Walker entitled, A Key to the Classical Pronunciation of Greek, Latin, and Scripture Proper Names"
|L10=Response to claim: "'They borrowed from early 19th century Methodist evangelical camp meetings and the Second Great Awakening in Joseph's 'burnt over district' backyard"
|L11=Response to claim: "'They borrowed from anti-Masonic sentiments of Joseph's time."
|L12=Response to claim: "FairMormon considers a tapir to satisfy this requirement, I’m sorry but that just won’t work. Tapirs do not pull chariots. Especially chariots without wheels"  
}}
}}


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|link=Criticism of Mormonism/Online documents/Letter to a CES Director/Book of Mormon Translation Concerns & Questions
|link=Criticism of Mormonism/Online documents/Letter to a CES Director/Book of Mormon Translation Concerns & Questions
|subject=Response to section "Book of Mormon Translation Concerns & Questions"
|subject=Response to section "Book of Mormon Translation Concerns & Questions"
|summary=The author of the letter asks, "Why is the Church not being honest and transparent to its members about how Joseph Smith really translated the Book of Mormon?  How am I supposed to be okay with this deception?"
|summary=
|sublink1=Response to claim: "Sources that I clearly demonstrate were either unofficial, extremely obscure, or not clearly educating the member and investigator about the rock in the hat translation"
|L1=Response to claim: "Sources that I clearly demonstrate were either unofficial, extremely obscure, or not clearly educating the member and investigator about the rock in the hat translation"
|sublink2=Response to claim: "The issue here is the Church's continued displaying - still in 2014 - the incorrect, inaccurate, and deceptive art in its Conference Center, Church History Museum, Temple Square, Missionary publications, and official publications"
|L2=Response to claim: "The issue here is the Church's continued displaying - still in 2014 - the incorrect, inaccurate, and deceptive art in its Conference Center, Church History Museum, Temple Square, Missionary publications, and official publications"
}}
}}
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|link=Criticism of Mormonism/Online documents/Letter to a CES Director/First Vision Concerns & Questions
|link=Criticism of Mormonism/Online documents/Letter to a CES Director/First Vision Concerns & Questions
|subject=Response to section "First Vision Concerns & Questions"
|subject=Response to section "First Vision Concerns & Questions"
|summary=The author states, "Like the rock in the hat story, I did not know there were multiple First Vision accounts. I did not know its contradictions or that the Church members didn’t know about a First Vision until 22 years after it supposedly happened. I was unaware of these omissions in the mission field as I was never taught or trained in the Missionary Training Center to teach investigators these facts."
|summary=
|sublink1=Response to claim: "he still manages to directly contradict himself by reporting “visitation of Angels” as compared to an actual visitation from Deity"
|L1=Response to claim: "he still manages to directly contradict himself by reporting “visitation of Angels” as compared to an actual visitation from Deity"
|sublink2=Response to claim: "Joseph intended the exact wording to be 'pillar of light' – not 'pillar of fire'"
|L2=Response to claim: "Joseph intended the exact wording to be 'pillar of light' – not 'pillar of fire'"
|sublink3=Response to claim: "FairMormon is arguing here that Joseph Smith did not in fact see God the Father and his son Jesus Christ, which is an apostate view"
|L3=Response to claim: "FairMormon is arguing here that Joseph Smith did not in fact see God the Father and his son Jesus Christ, which is an apostate view"
|sublink4=Response to claim: "the Church altered Joseph's words to instead read "I received my First Vision...” in the History of the Church"
|L4=Response to claim: "the Church altered Joseph's words to instead read "I received my First Vision...” in the History of the Church"
|sublink5=Response to claim: "FairMormon and apologists have to do everything they can to stretch the 1817-1818 Revival as long as possible - all the way into 1820"
|L5=Response to claim: "FairMormon and apologists have to do everything they can to stretch the 1817-1818 Revival as long as possible - all the way into 1820"
|sublink6=Response to claim: "Again, Joseph's mother, Lucy, and Joseph's brother, William, both stated that the family joined Presbyterianism after Alvin's death in November 1823"
|L6=Response to claim: "Again, Joseph's mother, Lucy, and Joseph's brother, William, both stated that the family joined Presbyterianism after Alvin's death in November 1823"
|L7=Response to claim: "Joseph Fielding Smith, upon discovering the 1832 account, ripped out the pages out of the letter book"
|L8=Response to claim: "Why doesn't FairMormon also include the following accounts in their list showing just how “consistent” all of the First Vision accounts are?"
|L9=Response to claim: "For something that excited the “public mind against me”… where are the records?"
|L10=Response to claim: "Joseph Smith's theophany, or First Vision account, was not unprecedented or unique."
|L11=Response to claim: "...the following is what LDS historian and member of the Joseph Smith Papers project, Ronald O. Barney, has to say about Fawn Brodie and her book, No Man Knows My History...Richard Bushman extensively used No Man Knows My History as a source in his Rough Stone Rolling biography of Joseph Smith."  
}}
}}
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|link=Criticism of Mormonism/Online documents/Letter to a CES Director/Book of Abraham Concerns & Questions
|link=Criticism of Mormonism/Online documents/Letter to a CES Director/Book of Abraham Concerns & Questions
|subject=Response to section "Book of Abraham Concerns & Questions"
|subject=Response to section "Book of Abraham Concerns & Questions"
|summary=The author notes that, "Egyptologists have found the source material for the Book of Abraham to be nothing more than a common pagan Egyptian funerary text for a deceased man named “Hor” in 1st century AD.  In other words, it was a common Breathing Permit that the Egyptians buried with their dead.  It has absolutely nothing to do with Abraham or anything Joseph claimed in his translation for the Book of Abraham."
|summary=
|sublink1="scholars have found the original papyrus Joseph translated and have dated it in first century AD, nearly 2,000 years after Abraham could have written it"
|L1=
|sublink2="It has absolutely nothing to do with Abraham or anything Joseph claimed in his translation for the Book of Abraham"
|sublink3=Facsimile 1
|sublink4="The following image is what Facsimile 1 is really supposed to look like"
|sublink5=Facsimile 2
|sublink6=Facsimile 3
|sublink7="the sun gets its light from Kolob"
|sublink8="There’s a book published in 1830 by Thomas Dick entitled 'The Philosophy of the Future State'"
|sublink9="Elder Jeffrey R. Holland was directly asked about the papyri not matching the Book of Abraham in a March 2012 BBC interview"
}}
}}
-->
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|link=Criticism of Mormonism/Online documents/Letter to a CES Director/Polygamy & Polyandry Concerns & Questions
|link=Criticism of Mormonism/Online documents/Letter to a CES Director/Polygamy & Polyandry Concerns & Questions
|subject=Response to section "Polygamy/Polyandry Concerns & Questions"
|subject=Response to section "Polygamy/Polyandry Concerns & Questions"
|summary=Regarding Joseph's practice of polygamy, the author states that "Joseph Smith’s pattern of behavior or modus operandi for a period of at least 10 years of his adult life was to keep secrets, be deceptive, and be dishonest – both privately and publicly."
|summary=
|sublink1=Response to claim: "Latter-day 'prophet, seer, and revelator' Lorenzo Snow strongly disagrees with FairMormon"
|L1=Response to claim: "Latter-day 'prophet, seer, and revelator' Lorenzo Snow strongly disagrees with FairMormon"
}}
}}
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{{SummaryItem
{{SummaryItem
|link=Criticism of Mormonism/Online documents/Letter to a CES Director/Prophets Concerns & Questions
|link=Criticism of Mormonism/Online documents/Letter to a CES Director/Prophets Concerns & Questions
|subject=Response to section "Prophets Concerns & Questions"
|subject=Response to section "Prophets Concerns & Questions"
|summary=The author expresses concern about changes in doctrine. For example, "As a believing member, I had no idea that Joseph Smith gave the priesthood to black men.  I’m supposed to go to the drawing board now and believe in a god who is not only a schizophrenic racist but who is inconsistent as well? Again, yesterday’s doctrine is today’s false doctrine.  Yesterday’s 10 prophets are today’s heretics."
|summary=
|sublink1="Brigham Young taught what is now known as 'Adam-God theory'. He taught that Adam is 'our Father and our God'"
|L1=Response to claim: "Brigham declared that he never preached a sermon that the 'children of men may not call scripture.'"
|sublink2="Yesterday's doctrine is today's false doctrine. Yesterday’s prophet is today’s heretic."
|L2=Response to claim: "FairMormon agrees and admits 'we do not know' while offering 3 different scenarios in their attempt to rationalize the ban"
|sublink3="Brigham Young said, 'The only men who become Gods, even the Sons of God, are those who enter into polygamy.'"
|L3=Response to claim: "FairMormon's above response got debunked by none other than the Church itself on December 6, 2013 when the Church released its new Race and the Priesthood essay"
|sublink4="As a believing member, I had no idea that Joseph Smith gave the priesthood to black men"
|L4=Response to claim: "We just need to edit out the racism and the 'black skin is a sign of divine disfavor or curse' stuff in the keystone Book of Mormon and we'll be set"
|sublink5=Mark Hofmann
|sublink6="Why would I want them following the prophet when a prophet is just a man of his time?"
}}
}}
-->
 
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{{SummaryItem
{{SummaryItem
|link=Criticism of Mormonism/Online documents/Letter to a CES Director/Kinderhook Plates and Translator & Seer Claims Concerns & Questions
|link=Criticism of Mormonism/Online documents/Letter to a CES Director/Kinderhook Plates and Translator & Seer Claims Concerns & Questions
|subject=Response to section "Kinderhook Plates and Translator/Seer Claims Concerns & Questions"
|subject=Response to section "Kinderhook Plates and Translator/Seer Claims Concerns & Questions"
|summary=The author claims that, "Joseph Smith made a scientific claim that he could translate ancient documents.  This is a testable claim.  Joseph failed the test with the Book of Abraham.  He failed the test with the Kinderhook Plates."
|summary=
|sublink1=Response to claim: "Joseph Smith was parading around and showing others the Egyptian hieroglyphics he copied off the gold plates around the same time as the discovery of the Kinderhook Plates"
|L1=Response to claim: "Joseph Smith was parading around and showing others the Egyptian hieroglyphics he copied off the gold plates around the same time as the discovery of the Kinderhook Plates"
|L2=Response to claim: "This is consistent with the New York Herald’s non-Mormon’s account...which refers to Joseph’s copy of the hieroglyphics from the gold plates"
}}
}}
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{{SummaryItem
{{SummaryItem
|link=Criticism of Mormonism/Online documents/Letter to a CES Director/Testimony & Spiritual Witness Concerns & Questions
|link=Criticism of Mormonism/Online documents/Letter to a CES Director/Testimony & Spiritual Witness Concerns & Questions
|subject=Response to section "Testimony/Spiritual Witness Concerns & Questions"
|subject=Response to section "Testimony/Spiritual Witness Concerns & Questions"
|summary=The author asks the question, "Why is this Spirit so unreliable and inconsistent?  How can I trust such an inconsistent and contradictory Source for knowing that Mormonism is worth betting my life, time, money, heart, mind, and obedience to?"
|summary=
|sublink1="Every major religion has members who claim the same thing: God or God’s spirit bore witness to them"
|L1=Response to claim: "Let's play a game! Try to match Atheism and these 8 religions to the following 21 quotes."
|sublink2="it would likewise be arrogant of a Latter-day Saint to deny their spiritual experiences and testimonies of the truthfulness of their own religion"
|L2=Response to claim: "Even prophets are often wrong."
|sublink3="If God’s method to revealing truth is through feelings, it’s a pretty ineffective method"
|sublink4="Joseph Smith received a revelation, through the peep stone in his hat, to send Hiram Page and Oliver Cowdery to Toronto, Canada for the sole purpose of selling the copyright of the Book of Mormon"
|sublink5="I saw a testimony as more than just spiritual experiences and feelings. I saw that we had evidence and logic on our side based on the correlated narrative I was fed by the Church about its origins."
|sublink6=Paul H. Dunn
|sublink7="a testimony is to be found in the bearing of it"
|sublink8="how can they be sure of the reliability of this same exact process in telling them that Mormonism is true?"
|sublink9="I felt the Spirit watching 'Saving Private Ryan' and the 'Schindler’s List'. Both R-rated and horribly violent movies. I also felt the Spirit watching 'Forrest Gump' and the 'Lion King'."
|sublink10="Why did I feel the Spirit as I listened to the stories of apostates sharing how they discovered for themselves that Mormonism is not true?"
}}
}}
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|link=Criticism of Mormonism/Online documents/Letter to a CES Director/Priesthood Restoration Concerns & Questions
|link=Criticism of Mormonism/Online documents/Letter to a CES Director/Priesthood Restoration Concerns & Questions
|subject=Response to section "Priesthood Restoration Concerns & Questions"
|subject=Response to section "Priesthood Restoration Concerns & Questions"
|summary=The author states, "Like the First Vision story, none of the members of the Church or Joseph Smith’s family had ever heard prior to 1834 about a priesthood restoration from John the Baptist or Peter, James, and John.  Although the priesthood is now taught to have been restored in 1829, Joseph and Oliver made no such claim until 1834.  Why did it take five years for Joseph or Oliver to tell members of the Church about the priesthood?"
|summary=
|sublink1="Although the priesthood is now taught to have been restored in 1829, Joseph and Oliver made no such claim until 1834."
|L1=Response to claim: "If Joseph was already an elder and apostle, what was the necessity of being ordained again?"
|sublink2="Why did it take five years for Joseph or Oliver to tell members of the Church about the priesthood?"
}}
|sublink3="Joseph Smith and Oliver Cowdery changed the wording of earlier revelations when they compiled the 1835 Doctrine & Covenants"
}}-->
 
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{{SummaryItem
{{SummaryItem
|link=Criticism of Mormonism/Online documents/Letter to a CES Director/Witnesses Concerns & Questions
|link=Criticism of Mormonism/Online documents/Letter to a CES Director/Witnesses Concerns & Questions
|subject=Response to section "Witnesses Concerns & Questions"
|subject=Response to section "Witnesses Concerns & Questions"
|summary=The author claims that, "If David Whitmer is a credible witness, why are we only using his testimony of the Book of Mormon while ignoring his other testimony claiming that God Himself spoke to Whitmer “by his own voice from the heavens” in June 1838 commanding Whitmer to apostatize from the Lord’s one and only true Church? FAIR must admit that Whitmer was less than credible on this occasion. Why couldn’t he have been less than credible when he testified of the Book of Mormon?"
|summary=
|sublink1=Response to claim: "God Himself spoke to Whitmer 'by his own voice from the heavens' in June 1838 commanding Whitmer to apostatize from the Lord’s one and only true Church"
|L1=Response to claim: "FAIR again misses the point, which is that no original, signed document of the witnesses’ testimonies exists"
|L2=Response to claim: "God Himself spoke to Whitmer 'by his own voice from the heavens' in June 1838 commanding Whitmer to apostatize from the Lord’s one and only true Church"
|L3=Response to claim: "We’re talking about two families which consisted of all believing Mormons...Hardly unbiased and neutral"
}}
}}
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{{SummaryItem
{{SummaryItem
|link=Criticism of Mormonism/Online documents/Letter to a CES Director/Temples & Freemasonry Concerns & Questions
|link=Criticism of Mormonism/Online documents/Letter to a CES Director/Temples & Freemasonry Concerns & Questions
|subject=Response to section "Temples & Freemasonry Concerns & Questions"
|subject=Response to section "Temples & Freemasonry Concerns & Questions"
|summary=The author of the letter asks, "Does the eternal salvation, eternal happiness, and eternal sealings of families really depend on medieval originated Masonic rituals in multi-million dollar castles?  Is God really going to separate good couples and their children who love one other and who want to be together in the next life because they object to uncomfortable and strange Masonic temple rituals and a polygamous heaven?" We respond to these questions in this article.
|summary=
|sublink1="Just seven weeks after Joseph’s Masonic initiation, Joseph introduced the LDS endowment"
|L1=Response to claim: "The entire endowment ceremony is an ordinance...FAIR knows that Joseph Smith taught that the endowment is not to be altered or changed"
|sublink2="We have the true Masonry"
}}
|sublink3="why doesn’t the LDS ceremony more closely resemble an earlier form of Masonry?"
|sublink4="Freemasonry has zero links to the Solomon’s temple"
|sublink5="What does it say about the Church if it removed something that Joseph Smith said he restored?"
}} -->


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|link=Criticism of Mormonism/Online documents/Letter to a CES Director/Science Concerns & Questions
|link=Criticism of Mormonism/Online documents/Letter to a CES Director/Science Concerns & Questions
|subject=Response to section "Science Concerns & Questions"
|subject=Response to section "Science Concerns & Questions"
|summary=The author concludes that "The problem Mormonism encounters is that so many of its claims are well within the realm of scientific study, and as such, can be proven or disproven.  To cling to faith in these areas, where the overwhelming evidence is against it, is willful ignorance, not spiritual dedication."
|summary=
|sublink1=Response to claim: "This doesn’t stop FAIR from acknowledging and admitting to the impossibility of Noah’s Ark and the global flood"
|L1=Response to claim: "This doesn’t stop FAIR from acknowledging and admitting to the impossibility of Noah’s Ark and the global flood"
|sublink2=Response to claim: "Does the lack of an explicit statement that they took their prized bees onboard their submarines to the Promised Land necessarily mean they didn't?"
|L2=Response to claim: "Does the lack of an explicit statement that they took their prized bees onboard their submarines to the Promised Land necessarily mean they didn't?"
|sublink3=Response to claim: "A beheaded man doing a pushup and trying to breathe? Not likely"
|L3=Response to claim: "Apparently Joseph forgot that he claimed Adam saw God face to face (God of the OT being Jesus). It’s also implied that Seth, Cain, and Enoch did as well. All of this contradicts the claim that the Brother of Jared is the first person to see the spirit body of Christ."
|L4=Response to claim: "A beheaded man doing a pushup and trying to breathe? Not likely"
}}
}}


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|link=Criticism of Mormonism/Online documents/Letter to a CES Director/Scriptures Concerns & Questions
|link=Criticism of Mormonism/Online documents/Letter to a CES Director/Scriptures Concerns & Questions
|subject=Response to section "Scriptures Concerns & Questions"
|subject=Response to section "Scriptures Concerns & Questions"
|summary=The author states that "To believe in the scriptures, I have to believe in a god who endorsed murder, genocide, infanticide, rape, slavery, selling daughters into sex slavery, polygamy, child abuse, stoning disobedient children, pillage, plunder, sexism, racism, human sacrifice, animal sacrifice, killing people who work on the Sabbath, death penalty for those who mix cotton with polyester, and so on."
|summary=
|sublink1="that Laban would send his servants after Nephi and his brothers is ridiculous considering that the same God who had no problem lighting stones and taming swarms of bees"
|L1=
|sublink2="God kills all the firstborn children in Egypt except for those who put blood on their doors?"
}} -->
|sublink3="Got a rebellious kid who doesn’t listen? Take him to the elders and to the end of the gates and stone him to death!"
|sublink4="I’m asked to believe in not only a part-time racist god and a part-time polygamous god but a part-time psychopathic schizophrenic one as well"
}}


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|link=Criticism of Mormonism/Online documents/Letter to a CES Director/Other Concerns & Questions
|link=Criticism of Mormonism/Online documents/Letter to a CES Director/Other Concerns & Questions
|subject=Response to section "Other Concerns & Questions"
|subject=Response to section "Other Concerns & Questions"
|summary=The author notes that, "Under [Quentin L.] Cook’s counsel, FAIR and unofficial LDS apologetic websites are anti-Mormon sources that should be avoided.  Not only do they introduce to Mormons 'internet materials that magnify, exaggerate, and in some cases invent shortcomings of early Church leaders' but they provide many ridiculous answers with logical fallacies and omissions while leaving members confused and hanging with a bizarre version of Mormonism."
|summary=
|sublink1=2013 Official Declaration 2 Header Update Dishonesty
|L1=Response to claim: "The Church debunks FAIR and ironically contradicts its own 2013 Official Declaration 2 header with the release of its December 6, 2013 essay on Race and the Priesthood"
|sublink2="Zina Diantha Huntington Young"
|L2=Response to claim: Brigham Young Sunday School Manual - "I never claimed that the quotes referred to Brigham Young’s own wives"
|sublink3="Brigham Young Sunday School Manual"
|L3=Response to claim: "the Church presents a monogamist Brigham Young in its Brigham Young manual"
|sublink4="The only men who become Gods, even the Sons of God, are those who enter into polygamy"
|L4=Response to claim: "The manuals do teach history along with didactical lessons"
|sublink5="Church Finances"
|L5=Response to claim: "The Church is not transparent to their members and investigators in 2014 about its origins and history"
|sublink6="Tithing"
|L6=Response to claim: "It is obvious that...Uchtdorf is focusing on the internet"
|sublink7="Names of the Church"
|L7=Response to claim: "The very idea that one single man can control and censor debate and the free flow of ideas and information is not only anti-intellectualism but anti-free agency as well"
|sublink8="Some things that are true are not very useful"
|sublink9="Criticizing leaders"
|sublink10="the scary internet"
|sublink11="Going after members who publish or share their questions, concerns, and doubts"
|sublink12=Strengthening the Church Members Committee
|sublink13="When the prophet speaks the debate is over"
}}
}}
==== ====
==== ====
Line 186: Line 169:
|link=Criticism of Mormonism/Online documents/Letter to a CES Director/Conclusion
|link=Criticism of Mormonism/Online documents/Letter to a CES Director/Conclusion
|subject=Response to section "Conclusion"
|subject=Response to section "Conclusion"
|summary=The author concludes, "FAIR and these unofficial apologists have done more to destroy my testimony than any anti-Mormon source ever could. I found their version of Mormonism to be alien and foreign to the Chapel Mormonism that I grew up in attending Church, seminary, reading scriptures, General Conferences, EFY, mission, and BYU. Their answers are not only contradictory to the scriptures and teachings I learned through correlated Mormonism…they’re truly bizarre."
|summary=
|sublink1="Among the first sources I looked to for answers were official Church sources such as Mormon.org and LDS.org. I couldn’t find them."
|L1=Response to claim: "FairMormon says...'Googling is not a synonym for seeking'...This is like saying, 'The library is not a synonym for seeking'"
|sublink2="FAIR and these unofficial apologists have done more to destroy my testimony than any anti-Mormon source ever could"
|L2=Response to claim: "Once again, Google delivers where the Church does not"
}} -->
|L3=Response to claim: "If one assumes that FAIR's undisputed silence is acceptance of the facts..."
}}


== ==
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[[es:La crítica del mormonismo/Documentos en línea/Carta a un Director del SEI]]
[[es:La crítica del mormonismo/Documentos en línea/Carta a un Director del SEI]]

Latest revision as of 20:19, 13 April 2024


A FairMormon Analysis of "Debunking FAIR’s Debunking" (also known as "Debunking FairMormon" - from the author of the Letter to a CES Director)



A FAIR Analysis of: Letter to a CES Director, a work by author: Jeremy Runnells
Does FairMormon agree with a large percentage of the claims made in the Letter to the CES Director?
Jeremy Runnells has claimed that FairMormon has agreed with him on a large percentage of various claims he has made, even going so far as to claim agreement on items that FairMormon did not respond to. With regard to historical facts, Mr. Runnells's citations are sometimes incorrect and his interpretations, even of correctly cited historical facts, are unwarranted. In short, FairMormon disagrees entirely with the conclusions reached by Jeremy Runnells.
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Overview

Approximately eight or nine months after we produced our original response to the Letter to a CES Director, the author produced an apologetic called Debunking FAIR's Debunking, later changed to Debunking FairMormon. Much of the material is simply an incorporation of our original summary responses to the individual issues, and the author's reassertion of his original claims. We have updated the original article responses to incorporate new evidence that the author of the CES Letter marshaled to attempt to bolster his original claims. Additionally, we have responded to new claims that appeared from the author that were not included in neither the original CES Letter, our response to it, nor the subsequent editions of the CES Letter. In this page we will highlight only new individual items which were not covered in the original CES Letter response (but as stated before, we have updated other articles to respond to other evidence covering the same claims). For convenience, these responses to Debunking FairMormon are also included in the list of responses to the original, and various updates, of the CES Letter.

Detailed responses to "Debunking FAIR’s Debunking" (also known as "Debunking FairMormon" - from the author of the Letter to a CES Director) by section are found in linked subarticles below

Response to section "Book of Mormon Concerns & Questions"

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Response to section "Book of Mormon Translation Concerns & Questions"

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Response to section "First Vision Concerns & Questions"

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Response to section "Polygamy/Polyandry Concerns & Questions"

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Response to section "Prophets Concerns & Questions"

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Response to section "Kinderhook Plates and Translator/Seer Claims Concerns & Questions"

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Response to section "Testimony/Spiritual Witness Concerns & Questions"

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Response to section "Priesthood Restoration Concerns & Questions"

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Response to section "Witnesses Concerns & Questions"

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Response to section "Temples & Freemasonry Concerns & Questions"

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Response to section "Science Concerns & Questions"

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Response to section "Other Concerns & Questions"

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Response to section "Conclusion"

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Notes


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