Difference between revisions of "Criticism of Mormonism/Books/One Nation Under Gods/Use of sources/Most accurate history in all the world"

m (The Problem)
m (top: Bot replace {{FairMormon}} with {{Main Page}} and remove extra lines around {{Header}})
 
(23 intermediate revisions by 6 users not shown)
Line 1: Line 1:
__NOTOC__
+
{{Main Page}}
{{FAIRAnalysisHeader
+
{{H1
|title=[[../../]]
+
|L=Criticism of Mormonism/Books/One Nation Under Gods/Use of sources/Most accurate history in all the world
|author=Richard Abanes
+
|H=Church History: The most accurate history in all the world?
|noauthor=
+
|S=
|section=[[../../Use of sources|Use of sources]], CLAIM
+
|L1=
|previous=[[../An Example of Biased Histories|An Example of Biased Histories]]
+
|T=[[../../|One Nation Under Gods]]
|next=[[../Destroying Governments and Religions|Destroying Governments and Religions]]
+
|A=Richard Abanes
|notes={{AuthorsDisclaimer}}
+
|<=[[../Stephen A. Douglas prophecy|Stephen A. Douglas prophecy]]
 +
|>=[[../Advertising for the Tanners|Advertising for the Tanners]]
 
}}
 
}}
=CLAIM=
+
{{Author claims label}}
==The Quotes==
 
===One Nation under Gods, page 407 (hardback)===
 
  
The endnote adds that "Mormon leaders additionally claim that their official history is not only 'an unusually accurate historical document,' but is 'the most accurate history in all the world'"
+
===One Nation under Gods, page 407 (hardback and paperback)===
  
===One Nation under Gods, page YYYY (paperback)===
+
The endnote states that "Mormon leaders additionally claim that their official history is not only 'an unusually accurate historical document,' but is 'the most accurate history in all the world'"
  
{{nw}}
+
{{Author sources label}}
  
==The References==
+
===Endnote 26, page 608 (hardback); page 606 (paperback)===
===Endnote 26, page 606 (hardback)===
 
  
 
*John Widtsoe, ''Joseph Smith-Seeker After Truth'', 297.
 
*John Widtsoe, ''Joseph Smith-Seeker After Truth'', 297.
 
*Joseph Fielding Smith, ''Doctrines of Salvation'', vol. 2, 199.
 
*Joseph Fielding Smith, ''Doctrines of Salvation'', vol. 2, 199.
  
===Endnote 15, page ZZZZ (paperback)===
+
{{Response label}}
  
{{nw}}
+
===John A. Widtsoe===
  
==The Problem==
+
Widtose wrote, in fact, that
  
===Widtsoe===
+
:The history is really a compilation. It is the journal of the Prophet, interlarded with available, original documents including the revelations to the Prophet. His own comments generally serve to tie the documents together in historical form. The wealth of original documents makes the volumes of double interest and importance.....The History of Joseph Smith, published by the Church, ''as to events and dates'', may be accepted as an unusually accurate historical document....It recounts intimate family affairs and sometimes apparently trifling Church matters. It sets forth boldly the documents of the day and the ''faith and opinions'' of the author.{{ia}}
  
* Widtose wrote, in fact, "The history is really a compilation. It is the journal of the Prophet, interlarded with available, original documents including the revelations to the Prophet. His own comments generally serve to tie the documents together in historical form. The wealth of original documents makes the volumes of double interest and importance.....The History of Joseph Smith, published by the Church, ''as to events and dates'', may be accepted as an unusually accurate historical document." {{ia}}
+
Thus, Widtsoe argues that the dates and events recorded are accurate and true, because of its reliance on primary documents where possible. He does not hide that it also includes opinions.
 
 
Thus, Widtsoe argues that the dates and events recorded are accurate and true, because of its reliance on primary documents where possible.
 
  
 
===Joseph Fielding Smith===
 
===Joseph Fielding Smith===
  
The distortion of Joseph Fielding Smith's remarks is more marked {{ea}}. He first notes that histories of the secular world may well have problems:
+
The misrepresentation of Joseph Fielding Smith's remarks is more marked {{ea}}. He first notes that histories of the secular world may well have problems:
  
 
:I could take you in the library of the Historian's Office in Salt Lake City and show you whole rows of books written by enemies of the Latter-day Saints, with scarcely a true statement in one of them. When you read of Rome, Greece, or any of these old countries, do you know if you are reading actually the events that took place? Well, you do not. You are reading what was reported by this historian and some of it may be false. This should not be the case with the Latter-day Saints, and it is not the case with the records written by inspiration of the Lord.
 
:I could take you in the library of the Historian's Office in Salt Lake City and show you whole rows of books written by enemies of the Latter-day Saints, with scarcely a true statement in one of them. When you read of Rome, Greece, or any of these old countries, do you know if you are reading actually the events that took place? Well, you do not. You are reading what was reported by this historian and some of it may be false. This should not be the case with the Latter-day Saints, and it is not the case with the records written by inspiration of the Lord.
Line 47: Line 43:
 
:The most important history in the world ''is the history of our Church, and it is the most accurate history in all the world''. It must be so. It is the most important to us because that history contains the hand dealings of God direct to us through revelation as it has come in the Doctrine and Covenants, in the Book of Mormon, and in any revelation that comes to us through the servants of the Lord for our guidance.
 
:The most important history in the world ''is the history of our Church, and it is the most accurate history in all the world''. It must be so. It is the most important to us because that history contains the hand dealings of God direct to us through revelation as it has come in the Doctrine and Covenants, in the Book of Mormon, and in any revelation that comes to us through the servants of the Lord for our guidance.
  
President Smith does ''not'' claim that the book ''History of the Church'' is "the most accurate history." He merely argues that "the history" of the Church is most accurate, because it contains "revelation...in the Doctrine and Covenants, in the Book of Mormon" as well as other "revelation that comes to us through the servants of the Lord."
+
President Smith does ''not'' claim that the multi-volume set of the ''History of the Church'' is "the most accurate history." He merely argues that "the history" of the Church is most accurate, because it contains "revelation...in the Doctrine and Covenants, in the Book of Mormon" as well as other "revelation that comes to us through the servants of the Lord."  
  
 
(This is akin to Joseph Smith, Jr.'s claim that the Book of Mormon was the [[Book_of_Mormon_as_the_most_correct_book|most correct book]] on earth.
 
(This is akin to Joseph Smith, Jr.'s claim that the Book of Mormon was the [[Book_of_Mormon_as_the_most_correct_book|most correct book]] on earth.
  
President Smith's meaning is made further clear in the remaining paragraphs:
+
President Smith's meaning is further clarified in the remaining paragraphs:
  
 
:Do you know that the time is coming when we are going to be judged out of the books that are written? Therefore we should make these records accurate; we should be sure of the steps we take. We are going to be judged out of the things written in books, out of the revelations of God, out of the temple records, out of those things which the Lord has commanded us to keep and have on file concerning the records of the people.
 
:Do you know that the time is coming when we are going to be judged out of the books that are written? Therefore we should make these records accurate; we should be sure of the steps we take. We are going to be judged out of the things written in books, out of the revelations of God, out of the temple records, out of those things which the Lord has commanded us to keep and have on file concerning the records of the people.
  
The "history" to which he is referring is records which members keep, revelations from God, and temple records. He is not referring to any particular work of history, or the ''History of the Church'' in particular.
+
The "history" to which he is referring is records which members keep, revelations from God, and temple records. He is not referring to any particular work of history, or the ''History of the Church'' volumes in particular.  
  
 
:There will be other records, of course, because if we happen to make mistakes, there will be the record in heaven which is a perfect record. ''In our history, if there are mistakes, we can say as did Moroni in the Book of Mormon, "They are the mistakes of men."''
 
:There will be other records, of course, because if we happen to make mistakes, there will be the record in heaven which is a perfect record. ''In our history, if there are mistakes, we can say as did Moroni in the Book of Mormon, "They are the mistakes of men."''
  
 
President Smith does not claim any inerrancy for the ''History of the Church'', or any Church records or revelation.
 
President Smith does not claim any inerrancy for the ''History of the Church'', or any Church records or revelation.
 
=Further reading=
 
{{FAIRAnalysisWiki}}
 

Latest revision as of 14:16, 13 April 2024

Church History: The most accurate history in all the world?



A FAIR Analysis of: One Nation Under Gods, a work by author: Richard Abanes

Author's Claims


One Nation under Gods, page 407 (hardback and paperback)

The endnote states that "Mormon leaders additionally claim that their official history is not only 'an unusually accurate historical document,' but is 'the most accurate history in all the world'"

Author's Sources


Endnote 26, page 608 (hardback); page 606 (paperback)

  • John Widtsoe, Joseph Smith-Seeker After Truth, 297.
  • Joseph Fielding Smith, Doctrines of Salvation, vol. 2, 199.

Detailed Analysis

John A. Widtsoe

Widtose wrote, in fact, that

The history is really a compilation. It is the journal of the Prophet, interlarded with available, original documents including the revelations to the Prophet. His own comments generally serve to tie the documents together in historical form. The wealth of original documents makes the volumes of double interest and importance.....The History of Joseph Smith, published by the Church, as to events and dates, may be accepted as an unusually accurate historical document....It recounts intimate family affairs and sometimes apparently trifling Church matters. It sets forth boldly the documents of the day and the faith and opinions of the author.(italics added)

Thus, Widtsoe argues that the dates and events recorded are accurate and true, because of its reliance on primary documents where possible. He does not hide that it also includes opinions.

Joseph Fielding Smith

The misrepresentation of Joseph Fielding Smith's remarks is more marked (emphasis added). He first notes that histories of the secular world may well have problems:

I could take you in the library of the Historian's Office in Salt Lake City and show you whole rows of books written by enemies of the Latter-day Saints, with scarcely a true statement in one of them. When you read of Rome, Greece, or any of these old countries, do you know if you are reading actually the events that took place? Well, you do not. You are reading what was reported by this historian and some of it may be false. This should not be the case with the Latter-day Saints, and it is not the case with the records written by inspiration of the Lord.

He then says:

The most important history in the world is the history of our Church, and it is the most accurate history in all the world. It must be so. It is the most important to us because that history contains the hand dealings of God direct to us through revelation as it has come in the Doctrine and Covenants, in the Book of Mormon, and in any revelation that comes to us through the servants of the Lord for our guidance.

President Smith does not claim that the multi-volume set of the History of the Church is "the most accurate history." He merely argues that "the history" of the Church is most accurate, because it contains "revelation...in the Doctrine and Covenants, in the Book of Mormon" as well as other "revelation that comes to us through the servants of the Lord."

(This is akin to Joseph Smith, Jr.'s claim that the Book of Mormon was the most correct book on earth.

President Smith's meaning is further clarified in the remaining paragraphs:

Do you know that the time is coming when we are going to be judged out of the books that are written? Therefore we should make these records accurate; we should be sure of the steps we take. We are going to be judged out of the things written in books, out of the revelations of God, out of the temple records, out of those things which the Lord has commanded us to keep and have on file concerning the records of the people.

The "history" to which he is referring is records which members keep, revelations from God, and temple records. He is not referring to any particular work of history, or the History of the Church volumes in particular.

There will be other records, of course, because if we happen to make mistakes, there will be the record in heaven which is a perfect record. In our history, if there are mistakes, we can say as did Moroni in the Book of Mormon, "They are the mistakes of men."
President Smith does not claim any inerrancy for the History of the Church, or any Church records or revelation.