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Difference between revisions of "Detailed response to CES Letter, Witnesses"
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|claim=The author concludes, "It doesn’t matter because of this one simple fact: Joseph did not use the gold plates for translating the Book of Mormon" | |claim=The author concludes, "It doesn’t matter because of this one simple fact: Joseph did not use the gold plates for translating the Book of Mormon" | ||
|answer= | |answer= | ||
| − | *Much is made of the fact that Joseph used a seer stone, which he placed in a hat, to dictate the text of the Book of Mormon | + | *Much is made of the fact that Joseph used a seer stone, which he placed in a hat, to dictate the text of the Book of Mormon without viewing the plates directly. |
| − | *Let's suppose that Joseph "used the plates." How, exactly, does one think that Joseph used the plates in the translation? The typical scenario that is used is that he employed the Nephite interpreters, the "spectacles," as if they were a pair of glasses, and used them to look at the text on the plates as he dictated. What are these "spectacles" supposed to be doing during this process? Are they somehow converting characters on the plates into English text? What is the difference between this and deducing the English text from a seer stone? | + | *Let's suppose that Joseph "used the plates." How, exactly, does one think that Joseph used the plates in the translation? He couldn't read the characters. The typical scenario that is used is that he employed the Nephite interpreters, the "spectacles," as if they were a pair of glasses, and used them to look at the text on the plates as he dictated. What are these "spectacles" supposed to be doing during this process? Are they somehow converting characters on the plates into English text? What is the difference between this and deducing the English text from a seer stone? |
*In reality, the "spectacles" consisted of two seer stones—they were not lenses. In addition, there are accounts indicating that Joseph actually placed the Nephite interpreters into his hat as well, to shield them from the ambient light. | *In reality, the "spectacles" consisted of two seer stones—they were not lenses. In addition, there are accounts indicating that Joseph actually placed the Nephite interpreters into his hat as well, to shield them from the ambient light. | ||
| − | *The plates served a variety of purposes. 1) They were viewed by witnesses as solid evidence that Joseph did indeed have an ancient records, 2) Joseph's efforts to obtain them over a four year period taught him and matured him in preparation for performing the translation | + | *The plates served a variety of purposes. 1) They were viewed by witnesses as solid evidence that Joseph did indeed have an ancient records, 2) Joseph's efforts to obtain them over a four year period taught him and matured him in preparation for performing the translation, 3) Joseph's efforts to protect and preserve them helped build his character. If Joseph were perpetrating a fraud, it would have been much simpler to claim direct revelation from God and forgo the physical plates and 4) Joseph copied characters off the plates to give to Martin Harris, which he subsequently showed to Charles Anthon. This was enough to convince Martin to assist with the production of the Book of Mormon. |
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Revision as of 08:27, 31 July 2013
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| [[../Priesthood Restoration Concerns & Questions|Priesthood Restoration Concerns & Questions]] | A FAIR Analysis of:
[[../|Letter to a CES Director]] |
[[../Temples & Freemasonry Concerns & Questions|Temples & Freemasonry Concerns & Questions]] |
A FAIR Analysis of the online document Letter to a CES Director section "Witnesses Concerns & Questions"
The Book of Mormon is no fake. I know what I know. I have seen what I have seen and I have heard what I have heard. I have seen the gold plates from which the Book of Mormon is written. An angel appeared to me and others and testified to the truthfulness of the record, and had I been willing to have perjured myself and sworn falsely to the testimony I now bear I could have been a rich man, but I could not have testified other than I have done and am now doing for these things are true.
—Martin Harris, shortly before his death. [1]
I have never at any time, denied that testimony or any part thereof, which has so long since been published with that book as one of the three witnesses. Those who know me best, well know that I have adhered to that testimony. And that no man may be misled or doubt my present views in regard to the same, I do now again affirm the truth of all my statement[s], as then made and published.
—David Whitmer, seven years before his death. [2]
I wrote, with my own pen, the entire Book of Mormon (save a few pages) as it fell from the lips of the Prophet Joseph, as he translated it by the gift and power of God, by the means of the Urim and Thummim, or as it is called by the book, Holy Interpreters. I beheld with my eyes, and handled with my hands, the gold plates from which it was transcribed. I also saw with my eyes and handled with my hands the Holy Interpreters. That book is true.
—Oliver Cowdery, two years before his death. [3]
- Response to section: Magical Worldview
- Response to section: Witnesses
- Response to section: Martin Harris
- Response to section: David Whitmer
- Response to section: Oliver Cowdery
- Response to section: Second Sight
- Response to section: James Strang and the Voree Plates Witnesses [Work in Progress]
- Response to section: No Document of Actual Signatures
- Response to section: "James Strang’s claims and Voree Plates Witnesses are distinctive and more impressive compared to the Book of Mormon Witnesses" [Work in Progress]
- Response to section: "the fact that all of the Book of Mormon Witnesses – except Martin Harris – were related to either Joseph Smith or David Whitmer"
- Response to section: "in light of their superstitions and reputations"
- Response to section: "The mistake that is made by 21st century Mormons is that they’re seeing the Book of Mormon Witnesses as empirical, rational, twenty-first century men"
- Response to section: "It doesn’t matter because of this one simple fact: Joseph did not use the gold plates for translating the Book of Mormon" [Work in Progress]
Response Section
Magical Worldview
Witnesses
Martin Harris
David Whitmer
David Whitmer's gravestone, upon which is engraved his testimony of the Book of Mormon: "The record of the Jews and the record of the Nephites are one."
Oliver Cowdery
Second Sight
No Document of Actual Signatures
"in light of their superstitions and reputations"
"The mistake that is made by 21st century Mormons is that they’re seeing the Book of Mormon Witnesses as empirical, rational, twenty-first century men"
"It doesn’t matter because of this one simple fact: Joseph did not use the gold plates for translating the Book of Mormon"
== Notes ==
- [note] George Godfrey, “Testimony of Martin Harris,” from an unpublished manuscript copy in the possession of his daughter, Florence (Godfrey) Munson of Fielding, Utah; quoted in Eldin Ricks, The Case of the Book of Mormon Witnesses (Salt Lake City: Deseret News Press, 1971), 65–66.
- [note] "David Whitmer Proclamation, 19 March 1881," Early Mormon Documents 5:69
- [note] Andrew Jenson, LDS Biographical Encyclopedia (Salt Lake City: Andrew Jenson History Company, 1901), 1:246.
- [note] George Godfrey, “Testimony of Martin Harris,” from an unpublished manuscript copy in the possession of his daughter, Florence (Godfrey) Munson of Fielding, Utah; quoted in Eldin Ricks, The Case of the Book of Mormon Witnesses (Salt Lake City: Deseret News Press, 1971), 65–66.
- [note] "David Whitmer Proclamation, 19 March 1881," Early Mormon Documents 5:69
- [note] Andrew Jenson, LDS Biographical Encyclopedia (Salt Lake City: Andrew Jenson History Company, 1901), 1:246.
- [note] "David Whitmer Proclamation, 19 March 1881," Early Mormon Documents 5:69.
- [note] Andrew Jenson, LDS Biographical Encyclopedia (Salt Lake City: Andrew Jenson History Company, 1901), 1:246.
- [note] George Godfrey, “Testimony of Martin Harris,” from an unpublished manuscript copy in the possession of his daughter, Florence (Godfrey) Munson of Fielding, Utah; quoted in Eldin Ricks, The Case of the Book of Mormon Witnesses (Salt Lake City: Deseret News Press, 1971), 65–66.