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Response to "Testimony & Spiritual Witness Concerns & Questions"

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• Response to section: "Every major religion has members who claim the same thing: God or God’s spirit bore witness to them"
• Response to section: "If God’s method to revealing truth is through feelings, it’s a pretty ineffective method"
• Response to section: "Joseph Smith received a revelation, through the peep stone in his hat, to send Hiram Page and Oliver Cowdery to Toronto, Canada for the sole purpose of selling the copyright of the Book of Mormon"
• Response to section: "I saw a testimony as more than just spiritual experiences and feelings. I saw that we had evidence and logic on our side based on the correlated narrative I was fed by the Church about its origins."
• Response to section: Paul H. Dunn
• Response to section: "a testimony is to be found in the bearing of it"
• Response to section: "how can they be sure of the reliability of this same exact process in telling them that Mormonism is true?"
• Response to section: "I felt the Spirit watching 'Saving Private Ryan' and the 'Schindler’s List'. Both R-rated and horribly violent movies. I also felt the Spirit watching 'Forrest Gump' and the 'Lion King'."
• Response to section: "Why did I feel the Spirit as I listened to the stories of apostates sharing how they discovered for themselves that Mormonism is not true?"

Response Section

"Every major religion has members who claim the same thing: God or God’s spirit bore witness to them"

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Do Latter-day Saints believe that members of other religions can receive a spiritual witness that their own teachings are true?

Jump to details:

• Question: How can Latter-day Saints reconcile having other people receive spiritual experiences that motivate them to believe in and become part of other religions?
• Question: Do Mormons believe that other religions can be inspired by God?
• Question: Do all other religions confirm their beliefs through spiritual witness?
• Question: Do Latter-day Saints discount the spiritual witnesses that members of other religions may receive?
• Question: Can non-Mormons feel a spiritual experience that cause them to devote themselves to service within another Church?
• Joseph Smith (1843): "I am just as ready to die in defending the rights of a Presbyterian, a Baptist, or a good man of any other denomination"
• Joseph Fielding Smith: "when the millennium comes...There will be millions of people...of all beliefs, still permitted to remain upon the face of the earth"
• Preach My Gospel: "many other nations and cultures have been blessed by those who were given that portion that God 'seeth fit that they should have'"

"If God’s method to revealing truth is through feelings, it’s a pretty ineffective method"

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The "burning in the bosom" in Mormonism as a method of determining truth

Jump to details:

• Question: Is a "burning in the bosom" simply a subjective, emotion-based, unreliable way to practice self-deception?
• Dallin H. Oaks (1997): "Surely, the word “burning” in this scripture signifies a feeling of comfort and serenity. That is the witness many receive. That is the way revelation works."
• Question: Why do critics of Mormonism who belong to other religions discount spiritual experiences?
• Question: Can a person "feel the spirit" while watching movies?
• Dr. Wendy Ulrich (2005): "How do the goosebumps and tearfulness I experience when someone speaks in a testimony meeting differ from the goosebumps and tearfulness I experience when the 4:00 parade begins at Disneyland?"
• Question: Can someone feel the spirit when listening to stories of apostasy?
• "Recognizing the Voice of the Spirit" (Podcast): "How can I come to know that spiritual experience is not just a product of chemical processes in the brain?"
• Question: Will our manifestation of truth from the Holy Ghost be a "spectacular" witness?
• Question: How can you know if an answer to prayer, a personal revelation, is true?
• Question: Why might someone not be able to see their spiritual impressions come to successful, obvious, and/or beautiful fruition?
• Question: Can spiritual experiences be simply willed to reality?
• Question: Can one simply decide when one feels and doesn't feel the Spirit?

"Joseph Smith received a revelation, through the peep stone in his hat, to send Hiram Page and Oliver Cowdery to Toronto, Canada for the sole purpose of selling the copyright of the Book of Mormon"

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Attempt to sell the Book of Mormon copyright in Canada

Jump to details:

• Question: Are there any eyewitness accounts of the events that resulted in the trip to Canada to sell the Book of Mormon copyright?
• Question: Did Joseph Smith receive a revelation instructing him to to sell the copyright to the Book of Mormon in Canada and later claim that the revelation was false?
• Question: How did the erroneous story of the attempt to sell the Book of Mormon copyright develop over time?
• Question: How does David Whitmer's account of the attempt to sell the Book of Mormon copyright compare to those of the eyewitnesses?
• Question: How did Latter-day Saint scholars respond to the attempt to sell the Book of Mormon copyright prior to Page's letter coming to light?

See also: Read the original text of the revelation discussing the sale of the copyright in Canada

"I saw a testimony as more than just spiritual experiences and feelings. I saw that we had evidence and logic on our side based on the correlated narrative I was fed by the Church about its origins."

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The Latter-day Saint "testimony" and its relationship to "feelings"

Jump to details:

• Question: Is a Latter-day Saint testimony simply based on "feelings"?
• Robert D. Hales (2013): "Gaining a testimony and becoming converted begins with study and prayer, then living the gospel with patience and persistence"

Paul H. Dunn

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"a testimony is to be found in the bearing of it"

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Question: Did Elder Boyd K. Packer suggest that we should "lie our way" into obtaining a testimony?

Introduction to Criticism

Critics of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints have pointed to to certain statements from General Authorities and criticized them for the manner in which they suggest a testimony might be obtained.

For instance, the now late Elder Boyd K. Packer, an apostle, once wrote:

It is not unusual to have a missionary say, “How can I bear testimony until I get one? How can I testify that God lives, that Jesus is the Christ, and that the gospel is true? If I do not have such a testimony, would that not be dishonest?” Oh, if I could teach you this one principle. A testimony is to be found in the bearing of it! Somewhere in your quest for spiritual knowledge, there is that “leap of faith,” as the philosophers call it. It is the moment when you have gone to the edge of the light and stepped into the darkness to discover that the way is lighted ahead for just a footstep or two. “The spirit of man,” is as the scripture says, indeed “is the candle of the Lord.” (Prov. 20:27) ^[1]

Another apostle, Elder Dallin H. Oaks, has expressed similar sentiments about the obtainment of a testimony before.^[2] Elder Gary E. Stevenson, another apostle, has reiterated those sentiments in print.^[3]

Critics have also taken issue with a statement by Elder Neil L. Andersen, another apostle, who has counseled those seeking conviction of the truthfulness of Joseph Smith's claims to "[c]onsider recording the testimony of Joseph Smith in your own voice, listening to it regularly, and sharing it with friends. Listening to the Prophet’s testimony in your own voice will help bring the witness you seek."^[4]

In the critics' point of view, these General Authorities are encouraging people to simply think and pray about the Church being true until they finally believe that it is i.e. "lie their way to faith."

Elder Packer is talking about having faith, which one must exercise before receiving a witness

Elder Packer and the other general authorities are not suggesting that a person must "lie their way" into having a testimony. Elder Packer is talking about having faith.

For instance, we read in Hebrews 11꞉1:

Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

One exercises faith before one has the evidence to prove it. Elder Packer and the other authorities are simply restating the scriptural definition of "faith" in terms of "testimony."

When one exercises faith, results follow which strengthen that faith

When one exercises faith, results follow which strengthen that faith, but one has to take that first "leap of faith." One does not take a "leap of faith," unless they already have a seed of faith to begin with. Elder Packer and the other authorities are not suggesting that you should be "lying your way into" having a testimony. Attempting to "lie" your way into having a testimony would be ineffective: your testimony would not grow, and you would become increasingly frustrated.

Elder Packer makes this clear by addressing this particular concern:

It is not unusual to have a missionary say, “How can I bear testimony until I get one? How can I testify that God lives, that Jesus is the Christ, and that the gospel is true? If I do not have such a testimony, would that not be dishonest?”

Oh, if I could teach you this one principle: a testimony is to be found in the bearing of it!

Somewhere in your quest for spiritual knowledge, there is that “leap of faith,” as the philosophers call it. It is the moment when you have gone to the edge of the light and stepped into the darkness to discover that the way is lighted ahead for just a footstep or two. “The spirit of man is,” as the scripture says, indeed “the candle of the Lord” (Proverbs 20:27).

It is one thing to receive a witness from what you have read or what another has said; and that is a necessary beginning. It is quite another to have the Spirit confirm to you in your bosom that what you have testified is true. Can you not see that it will be supplied as you share it? As you give that which you have, there is a replacement, with increase!

To speak out is the test of your faith.

See also: Question: Is the Latter-day Saint conception of testimony from the Holy Ghost threatened by neuroscience or psychology?

"how can they be sure of the reliability of this same exact process in telling them that Mormonism is true?"

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"I felt the Spirit watching 'Saving Private Ryan' and the 'Schindler’s List'. Both R-rated and horribly violent movies. I also felt the Spirit watching 'Forrest Gump' and the 'Lion King'."

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Why do I "feel the spirit" when watching movies?

Jump to details:

• Question: Can a person "feel the spirit" while watching movies?
• Dr. Wendy Ulrich (2005): "How do the goosebumps and tearfulness I experience when someone speaks in a testimony meeting differ from the goosebumps and tearfulness I experience when the 4:00 parade begins at Disneyland?"

"Why did I feel the Spirit as I listened to the stories of apostates sharing how they discovered for themselves that Mormonism is not true?"

1. ↑ Boyd K. Packer, "The Candle of the Lord," Ensign 13 (January 1983); Boyd K. Packer, "The Quest for Spiritual Knowledge," New Era 36 (January 2007). The latter source cited is a reprinting of a talk given at a seminar for new mission presidents on June 25, 1982. This was quoted in Jeremy T. Runnells, CES Letter: My Search for Answers to my Mormon Doubts (American Fork, UT: CES Letter Foundation, 2017), 78. <https://cesletter.org/CES-Letter.pdf>.
2. ↑ Dallin H. Oaks, “Testimony,” General Conference (April 2008). “We gain or strengthen a testimony by bearing it. Someone even suggested that some testimonies are better gained on the feet bearing them than on the knees praying for them.”
3. ↑ Gary E. Stevenson, "Testimony: Sharing in Word and Deed," New Era 48 (March 2019).
4. ↑ Neil L. Andersen, "Joseph Smith," General Conference (October 2014). Quoted in Runnells, CES Letter, 78.