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Criticism of Mormonism/Online documents/Letter to a CES Director: Difference between revisions

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|link=Criticism of Mormonism/Online documents/Letter to a CES Director/First Vision Concerns & Questions
|link=Criticism of Mormonism/Online documents/Letter to a CES Director/First Vision Concerns & Questions
|subject=Response to section "First Vision Concerns & Questions"
|subject=Response to section "First Vision Concerns & Questions"
|summary=The author states, "Like the rock in the hat story, I did not know there were multiple First Vision accounts. I did not know its contradictions or that the Church members didn’t know about a First Vision until 22 years after it supposedly happened. I was unaware of these omissions in the mission field as I was never taught or trained in the Missionary Training Center to teach investigators these facts."
|summary=The author states, "Like the rock in the hat story, I did not know there were multiple First Vision accounts. I did not know its contradictions or that the Church members didn’t know about a First Vision until 22 years after it supposedly happened. I was unaware of these omissions in the mission field as I was never taught or trained in the Missionary Training Center to teach investigators these facts."
|sublink1="There are at least 4 different First Vision accounts by Joseph Smith"
|sublink1=Response to claim: "There are at least 4 different First Vision accounts by Joseph Smith"
|sublink2="The dates / his ages are all over the place"
|sublink2=Response to claim: "The dates / his ages are all over the place"
|sublink3="The reason or motive for seeking divine help – bible reading and conviction of sins, a revival, a desire to know if God exists, wanting to know which church to join – are all over the place"
|sublink3=Response to claim: "The reason or motive for seeking divine help – bible reading and conviction of sins, a revival, a desire to know if God exists, wanting to know which church to join – are all over the place"
|sublink4="Who appears to him – a spirit, an angel, two angels, Jesus, many angels, the Father and the Son – are all over the place."
|sublink4=Response to claim: "Who appears to him – a spirit, an angel, two angels, Jesus, many angels, the Father and the Son – are all over the place."
|sublink5="The historical record shows that there was no revival in Palmyra in 1820"
|sublink5=Response to claim: "The historical record shows that there was no revival in Palmyra in 1820"
|sublink6="Why did Joseph hold a Trinitarian view of the Godhead, as shown previously with the Book of Mormon, if he clearly saw that the Father and Son were separate embodied beings in the official First Vision?"
|sublink6=Response to claim: "Why did Joseph hold a Trinitarian view of the Godhead, as shown previously with the Book of Mormon, if he clearly saw that the Father and Son were separate embodied beings in the official First Vision?"
|sublink7="There is absolutely no record of a First Vision prior to 1832"
|sublink7=Response to claim: "There is absolutely no record of a First Vision prior to 1832"
|sublink8="In the 1832 account, Joseph said that before praying he knew that there was no true or living faith or denomination upon the earth"
|sublink8=Response to claim: "In the 1832 account, Joseph said that before praying he knew that there was no true or living faith or denomination upon the earth"
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Revision as of 14:55, 24 October 2014

A FairMormon Analysis of "Letter to a CES Director: Why I Lost My Testimony"

Quench not the Spirit. Despise not prophesyings. Prove all things; hold fast that which is good.

—1 Thessalonians 5꞉19-21


A FAIR Analysis of:
Letter to a CES Director
A work by author: Jeremy Runnells
∗       ∗       ∗

Overview

The "Letter to a CES Director: Why I Lost My Testimony" is an online document which is critical of Latter-day Saint truth claims. The document is comprised of a list of issues that the author states caused him to lose his testimony, and it is hosted on a number of websites which are critical of the Church. [1] The author states that he is "a disaffected member who lost his testimony so it’s no secret which side I’m on at the moment. All this information is a result of over a year of intense research and an absolute rabid obsession with Joseph Smith and Church history. With this said, I’d be pretty arrogant and ignorant to say that I have all the information and that you don’t have answers."

A long list of issues follows. The author ultimately concludes that "There are just way too many problems. We’re not just talking about one issue here. We’re talking about dozens of serious issues that undermine the very foundation of the LDS Church and its truth claims."

FairMormon's response

In developing our response, our primary intended audience is not necessarily the author of the Letter nor his associates, but rather those individuals, perhaps faithful Latter-day Saints, perhaps questioning, perhaps once-faithful but now sincerely doubting, who may have come across this Letter and been troubled by its contents. We respond here to the original version of the letter that was actually sent to the CES director and posted on FutureMissionary.com. The author has since made some corrections based upon this analysis and posted an apologetic in defense of his position at http://www.cesletter.com/debunking-fairmormon/

This set of articles comprises approximately 143 questions or sources assigned to the response to Letter to a CES Director. A full list of these articles may be found here: Category:Letter to a CES Director. New questions and sources are periodically added to this list.

Detailed responses by section are found in linked subarticles below

Response to section "Book of Abraham Concerns & Questions"

Summary: The author notes that, "Egyptologists have found the source material for the Book of Abraham to be nothing more than a common pagan Egyptian funerary text for a deceased man named “Hor” in 1st century AD. In other words, it was a common Breathing Permit that the Egyptians buried with their dead. It has absolutely nothing to do with Abraham or anything Joseph claimed in his translation for the Book of Abraham."

Response to section "Prophets Concerns & Questions"

Summary: The author expresses concern about changes in doctrine. For example, "As a believing member, I had no idea that Joseph Smith gave the priesthood to black men. I’m supposed to go to the drawing board now and believe in a god who is not only a schizophrenic racist but who is inconsistent as well? Again, yesterday’s doctrine is today’s false doctrine. Yesterday’s 10 prophets are today’s heretics."

Response to section "Kinderhook Plates and Translator/Seer Claims Concerns & Questions"

Summary: The author claims that, "Joseph Smith made a scientific claim that he could translate ancient documents. This is a testable claim. Joseph failed the test with the Book of Abraham. He failed the test with the Kinderhook Plates."

Response to section "Science Concerns & Questions"

Summary: The author concludes that "The problem Mormonism encounters is that so many of its claims are well within the realm of scientific study, and as such, can be proven or disproven. To cling to faith in these areas, where the overwhelming evidence is against it, is willful ignorance, not spiritual dedication."

Response to section "Scriptures Concerns & Questions"

Summary: The author states that "To believe in the scriptures, I have to believe in a god who endorsed murder, genocide, infanticide, rape, slavery, selling daughters into sex slavery, polygamy, child abuse, stoning disobedient children, pillage, plunder, sexism, racism, human sacrifice, animal sacrifice, killing people who work on the Sabbath, death penalty for those who mix cotton with polyester, and so on."

For further information related to this topic


Debunking FairMormon

Summary: The author of the Letter to a CES Director spent approximately eight months and over 500 pages responding to FairMormon's analysis of the CES Letter. He calls this document "Debunking FairMormon". The document incorporates our original summary responses and the author responds line-by-line to reassert his original claims.

Citation abuse in the Letter to a CES Director

Summary: Examples of citation abuse in the Letter to a CES Director which demonstrate quote mining and quote duplications in order to make the hostile quotes appear to be more numerous.

The author's "open letter" to Elder Quentin L. Cook

Summary: Six months prior to writing the "Letter to a CES Director," the author posted an "Open Letter" to Elder Quentin L. Cook in an online ex-Mormon forum. This "open letter" represents a good summary of the issues that he would later cover in the "CES letter."

Attempts to "spread the word" about the CES Letter and media response.

Summary: Efforts to "spread the word" using the CES Letter involve vandalism and email spam.

Ad hominem case study: An attempt to discredit Brian Hales as a scholar

Summary: The author of A Letter to a CES Director attempts to discredit Brian Hales as a scholar without addressing his work.

Ad hominem case study: An attempt to portray FairMormon as delusional, dishonest and deceptive

Summary: The author of A Letter to a CES Director attempts to dismiss members of FairMormon as "delusional, dishonest and deceptive."

Interpreter: A Journal of Latter-day Saint Faith and Scholarship, "Eye of the Beholder, Law of the Harvest: Observations on the Inevitable Consequences of the Different Investigative Approaches of Jeremy Runnells and Jeff Lindsay"

Kevin Christensen,  Interpreter: A Journal of Latter-day Saint Faith and Scholarship, (2014)

In his Letter to a CES Director, Jeremy Runnells explains how a year of obsessive investigation brought about the loss of his testimony. In an LDS FAQ, LDS blogger Jeff Lindsay deals with all of the same questions, and has done so at least twenty years and has not only an intact testimony, but boundless enthusiasm. What makes the difference? In the parable of the Sower, Jesus explained that the same seeds (words) can generate completely different harvests, ranging from nothing to a hundred-fold increase, all depending on the different soil and nurture. This essay looks at how different expectations and inquiries for translation, prophets, key scriptural passages on representative issues can lead to very different outcomes for investigators.

Click here to view the complete article

The FAIR Blog responds to these questions

Jeff Lindsay,"Coping with the “Big List” of Attacks on the LDS Faith", FAIR Blog, (May 20, 2014)


One of the challenges in defending one’s faith is coping with critics who use the “Big List” technique in their attack. This involves throwing out numerous arguments to create the impression of an overwhelming barrage that decimates the faith in question (see the related post, “If Only 10% of These Charges Are True…“). The Big List is loaded with barbed questions that weren’t written in search of a real answer. If there is a good defense to the arguments raised at first, never mind, there are many more to be launched in different directions.


As with many topics in fields like history, science, and religion, the issues raised in Big List attacks are often complex and may require exploring abundant details to answer questions properly. Even for those who are prepared to answer questions on a wide variety of topics, the time it takes to lay a foundation and properly answer a question can be taken by the instantly impatient critics as an admission of weakness and confirmation that they are right, and then it’s time to move on to the next attack and the next. If reasonable answers are promptly provided for some attacks, or if the alleged weakness on further examination actually proves to be evidence in favor of the faithful position, the response can be ignored as new attacks from the Big List are hurled out.

Click here to view the complete article

Daniel C. Peterson, "Some Reflections On That Letter To a CES Director"

Daniel C. Peterson,  Proceedings of the 2014 FairMormon Conference, (8 August 2014)

Some of you don’t know what the “Letter to a CES Director” is. It’s a letter that’s been circulating online for about a year now…a year and a half, I think, as far as I know, that has gotten quite a bit of circulation. It’s a kind of compendium of standard critical arguments against the truth claims of the Church. ....I don’t object to the attempt in the “Letter to a CES Director” to subject the claims of Mormonism to reasoned examination. I just don’t think the effort went nearly far or deep enough.

Click here to view the complete article


Notes


  1. ↑ The PDF version of the letter is located at http://cesletter.com/. A response to FairMormon's initial response is located at http://www.cesletter.com/debunking-fairmormon/ FairMormon's standing policy is not to link to critical websites. To view these sites, copy and paste the links into your browser.
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