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Criticism of Mormonism/Books/Losing a Lost Tribe: Native Americans, DNA, and the Mormon Church/Chapter 4: Difference between revisions
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== | ==Response to claim: 47 - The assumption that Polynesians are descendants of Lehi is the "most precarious" belief taken from the Book of Mormon== | ||
{{ | {{IndexClaimItemShort | ||
|title=Losing a Lost Tribe | |||
|claim= | |claim= | ||
The assumption that Polynesians are descendants of Lehi is the "most precarious" belief taken from the Book of Mormon. | |||
|authorsources= | |authorsources= | ||
No source given. | |||
}} | }} | ||
{{CriticalWork:Southerton:Losing:Repeat:All from Lehi}} | |||
== | ==Response to claim: 47 - "Mormon folklore" suggests that Hagoth colonized the Pacific== | ||
{{ | {{IndexClaimItemShort | ||
|title=Losing a Lost Tribe | |||
|claim= | |claim= | ||
"Mormon folklore" suggests that Hagoth colonized the Pacific. | |||
| | |authorsources= | ||
{{s||Alma|63|5}} | |||
}} | |||
{{triage| | |||
* It is not clear what normative value "folklore" has. | * It is not clear what normative value "folklore" has. | ||
* LDS scripture suggests that Hagoth probably voyaged to the Pacific. If he left any descendants, they probably persist among Pacific Islanders. | * LDS scripture suggests that Hagoth probably voyaged to the Pacific. If he left any descendants, they probably persist among Pacific Islanders. | ||
}} | |||
* [[Book of Mormon/Lamanites/Relationship to Amerindians#All_From_Lehi|All from Lehi?]] | * [[Book of Mormon/Lamanites/Relationship to Amerindians#All_From_Lehi|All from Lehi?]] | ||
* [[Book of Mormon/Lamanites/Relationship to Polynesians]] | * [[Book of Mormon/Lamanites/Relationship to Polynesians]] | ||
==Response to claim: 48 - George Q. Cannon taught the Polynesians that they were descendents of the Israelites== | |||
{{IndexClaimItemShort | |||
|title=Losing a Lost Tribe | |||
|claim= | |||
George Q. Cannon taught the Polynesians that they were descendents of the Israelites. | |||
|authorsources= | |authorsources= | ||
Scott G. Kenny, "Mormons and the Smallpox Epidemic of 1853," ''The Hawaiian Journal of History'', 31:1-26 (1997). | |||
}} | }} | ||
{{triage| | |||
{{ | |||
| | |||
* {{Fundamentalism}}: The LDS are not [[Fallibility of prophets|prophetic infalliblists]], but in this case Cannon may well be right. | * {{Fundamentalism}}: The LDS are not [[Fallibility of prophets|prophetic infalliblists]], but in this case Cannon may well be right. | ||
* If Lehi had descendants, then population genetics tells us that the Polynesians are probably among them. | * If Lehi had descendants, then population genetics tells us that the Polynesians are probably among them. | ||
}} | |||
* [[Book of Mormon/Lamanites/Relationship to Amerindians#All_From_Lehi|All from Lehi?]] | * [[Book of Mormon/Lamanites/Relationship to Amerindians#All_From_Lehi|All from Lehi?]] | ||
* [[Book of Mormon/Lamanites/Relationship to Polynesians]] | * [[Book of Mormon/Lamanites/Relationship to Polynesians]] | ||
== | ==Response to claim: 49 - Brigham Young stated in 1958 that the Polynesians were descendents of Abraham== | ||
{{ | {{IndexClaimItemShort | ||
|title=Losing a Lost Tribe | |||
|claim= | |claim= | ||
Brigham Young stated in 1958 that the Polynesians were descendents of Abraham. | |||
| | |authorsources= | ||
Norman Douglas, "The Sons of Lehi and the Seed of Cain: Racial Myths in Mormon Scripture and Their Relevance to the Pacific Islands," ''Journal of Religious History'', 8:90-104 (1974). | |||
}} | |||
{{triage| | |||
* {{Fundamentalism}}: The LDS are not [[Fallibility of prophets|prophetic infalliblists]], but in this case Brigham may well be right. | * {{Fundamentalism}}: The LDS are not [[Fallibility of prophets|prophetic infalliblists]], but in this case Brigham may well be right. | ||
* If Lehi had descendants, then population genetics tells us that the Polynesians are probably among them. | * If Lehi had descendants, then population genetics tells us that the Polynesians are probably among them. | ||
}} | |||
* [[Book of Mormon/Lamanites/Relationship to Amerindians#All_From_Lehi|All from Lehi?]] | * [[Book of Mormon/Lamanites/Relationship to Amerindians#All_From_Lehi|All from Lehi?]] | ||
* [[Book of Mormon/Lamanites/Relationship to Polynesians]] | * [[Book of Mormon/Lamanites/Relationship to Polynesians]] | ||
== | ==Response to claim: 49 - The "curse was redefined" to apply only to people of African descent== | ||
{{ | {{IndexClaimItemShort | ||
|title=Losing a Lost Tribe | |||
|claim= | |claim= | ||
The "curse was redefined" to apply only to people of African descent. | |||
| | |authorsources= | ||
No source given. | |||
}} | |||
{{triage| | |||
* {{HistoricalError}}: there is no evidence that the Book of Mormon curse on Lamanites ever forbade them the priesthood if they repented. The author is confusing two quite separate issues. | * {{HistoricalError}}: there is no evidence that the Book of Mormon curse on Lamanites ever forbade them the priesthood if they repented. The author is confusing two quite separate issues. | ||
}} | |||
* [[Book of Mormon/Lamanites/Curse]] | * [[Book of Mormon/Lamanites/Curse]] | ||
* [[Blacks and the priesthood]] | * [[Blacks and the priesthood]] | ||
==Response to claim: 52 - Words spoken in General Conference are considered to be "akin" to scripture== | |||
{{IndexClaimItemShort | |||
|title=Losing a Lost Tribe | |||
|claim= | |||
Words spoken in General Conference are considered to be "akin" to scripture. | |||
|authorsources= | |authorsources= | ||
No source given. | |||
}} | |||
{{triage| | |||
* {{Fundamentalism}}: [[Church doctrine/Statements by Church leaders]] | |||
}} | }} | ||
== | ==Response to claim: 53 - Research has confirmed that there are strong links between Polynesia and the Orient== | ||
{{ | {{IndexClaimItemShort | ||
|title=Losing a Lost Tribe | |||
|claim= | |claim= | ||
Research has confirmed that there are strong links between Polynesia and the Orient. | |||
|authorsources= | |authorsources= | ||
No source given. | |||
}} | }} | ||
{{triage| | |||
{{ | |||
| | |||
* There is nothing about the Book of Mormon that would preclude this. | * There is nothing about the Book of Mormon that would preclude this. | ||
* Throughout this section, the author reads the Book of Mormon in the most naive way possible. But, for at least a hundred years before, leaders and members were [[Book_of_Mormon/Geography/Statements|saying very similar things]]. He is simply uninformed about LDS thought on the topic. | * Throughout this section, the author reads the Book of Mormon in the most naive way possible. But, for at least a hundred years before, leaders and members were [[Book_of_Mormon/Geography/Statements|saying very similar things]]. He is simply uninformed about LDS thought on the topic. | ||
}} | }} | ||
==Response to claim: 54 - Spencer W. Kimball and Heber J. Grant believed that the islanders were descendents of Lehi== | |||
{{IndexClaimItemShort | |||
{{ | |title=Losing a Lost Tribe | ||
|claim= | |claim= | ||
Spencer W. Kimball and Heber J. Grant believed that the islanders were descendents of Lehi. | |||
| | |authorsources= | ||
Spencer W. Kimball, "First Presidency Message: Our Paths Have Met Again," ''Ensign'', 5:2-7 (1975) | |||
}} | |||
{{triage| | |||
* {{Fundamentalism}}: The LDS are not [[Church doctrine/Statements by Church leaders|prophetic infalliblists]], but in this case these two Church presidents may well be right. | * {{Fundamentalism}}: The LDS are not [[Church doctrine/Statements by Church leaders|prophetic infalliblists]], but in this case these two Church presidents may well be right. | ||
}} | |||
{{CriticalWork:Southerton:Losing:Repeat:All from Lehi}} | {{CriticalWork:Southerton:Losing:Repeat:All from Lehi}} | ||
== | ==Response to claim: 54 - The Church invested "vast sums of money" to build church schools in Polynesia, Mexico and Central and South America, but "denied" these benefits to Micronesia and Melanesia== | ||
{{ | {{IndexClaimItemShort | ||
|title=Losing a Lost Tribe | |||
|claim= | |claim= | ||
The Church invested "vast sums of money" to build church schools in Polynesia, Mexico and Central and South America, but "denied" these benefits to Micronesia and Melanesia. | |||
| | |authorsources= | ||
No source given. | |||
}} | |||
{{triage| | |||
* {{Prejudicial}}: the Church gets no credit for what it has done, only what it has not done. | * {{Prejudicial}}: the Church gets no credit for what it has done, only what it has not done. | ||
* Could the presence of schools have something to do with LDS membership levels, missionary efforts, etc.? | * Could the presence of schools have something to do with LDS membership levels, missionary efforts, etc.? | ||
}} | }} | ||
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[[en:Criticism of Mormonism/Books/Losing a Lost Tribe: Native Americans, DNA, and the Mormon Church/Chapter 4]] | |||
Revision as of 04:04, 4 December 2016
Response to claims made in "Chapter 4: The Lamanites of Polynesia"
| Chapter 3 | A FAIR Analysis of: Losing a Lost Tribe: Native Americans, DNA, and the Mormon Church A work by author: Simon G. Southerton
|
Chapter 6 |
Response to claim: 47 - The assumption that Polynesians are descendants of Lehi is the "most precarious" belief taken from the Book of Mormon
The author(s) of Losing a Lost Tribe make(s) the following claim:
The assumption that Polynesians are descendants of Lehi is the "most precarious" belief taken from the Book of Mormon.
Author's sources: No source given.
FAIR's Response
Logical Fallacy: Appeal to Ridicule—The author is presenting the argument in such a way that it makes his or her subject look ridiculous, usually by misrepresenting the argument or exaggerating it.
Taking the position that Lehi existed, then population genetics predicts that virtually all Amerindians and Polynesians are his literal descendants. They are simply not exclusively his descendants. The author wants to make Lehite links absurd or impossible.Response to claim: 47 - "Mormon folklore" suggests that Hagoth colonized the Pacific
The author(s) of Losing a Lost Tribe make(s) the following claim:
"Mormon folklore" suggests that Hagoth colonized the Pacific.
Author's sources: Alma 63꞉5
FAIR's Response
|
Response to claim: 48 - George Q. Cannon taught the Polynesians that they were descendents of the Israelites
The author(s) of Losing a Lost Tribe make(s) the following claim:
George Q. Cannon taught the Polynesians that they were descendents of the Israelites.
Author's sources: Scott G. Kenny, "Mormons and the Smallpox Epidemic of 1853," The Hawaiian Journal of History, 31:1-26 (1997).
FAIR's Response
|
Response to claim: 49 - Brigham Young stated in 1958 that the Polynesians were descendents of Abraham
The author(s) of Losing a Lost Tribe make(s) the following claim:
Brigham Young stated in 1958 that the Polynesians were descendents of Abraham.
Author's sources: Norman Douglas, "The Sons of Lehi and the Seed of Cain: Racial Myths in Mormon Scripture and Their Relevance to the Pacific Islands," Journal of Religious History, 8:90-104 (1974).
FAIR's Response
|
Response to claim: 49 - The "curse was redefined" to apply only to people of African descent
The author(s) of Losing a Lost Tribe make(s) the following claim:
The "curse was redefined" to apply only to people of African descent.
Author's sources: No source given.
FAIR's Response
|
Response to claim: 52 - Words spoken in General Conference are considered to be "akin" to scripture
The author(s) of Losing a Lost Tribe make(s) the following claim:
Words spoken in General Conference are considered to be "akin" to scripture.
Author's sources: No source given.
FAIR's Response
|
Response to claim: 53 - Research has confirmed that there are strong links between Polynesia and the Orient
The author(s) of Losing a Lost Tribe make(s) the following claim:
Research has confirmed that there are strong links between Polynesia and the Orient.
Author's sources: No source given.
FAIR's Response
|
Response to claim: 54 - Spencer W. Kimball and Heber J. Grant believed that the islanders were descendents of Lehi
The author(s) of Losing a Lost Tribe make(s) the following claim:
Spencer W. Kimball and Heber J. Grant believed that the islanders were descendents of Lehi.
Author's sources: Spencer W. Kimball, "First Presidency Message: Our Paths Have Met Again," Ensign, 5:2-7 (1975)
FAIR's Response
|
Logical Fallacy: Appeal to Ridicule—The author is presenting the argument in such a way that it makes his or her subject look ridiculous, usually by misrepresenting the argument or exaggerating it.
Taking the position that Lehi existed, then population genetics predicts that virtually all Amerindians and Polynesians are his literal descendants. They are simply not exclusively his descendants. The author wants to make Lehite links absurd or impossible.Response to claim: 54 - The Church invested "vast sums of money" to build church schools in Polynesia, Mexico and Central and South America, but "denied" these benefits to Micronesia and Melanesia
The author(s) of Losing a Lost Tribe make(s) the following claim:
The Church invested "vast sums of money" to build church schools in Polynesia, Mexico and Central and South America, but "denied" these benefits to Micronesia and Melanesia.
Author's sources: No source given.
FAIR's Response
|