FAIR is a non-profit organization dedicated to providing well-documented answers to criticisms of the doctrine, practice, and history of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.
Array
Criticism of Mormonism/Books/One Nation Under Gods/Use of sources/Conception of Christ: Difference between revisions
mNo edit summary |
(links and pages) |
||
| Line 5: | Line 5: | ||
|noauthor= | |noauthor= | ||
|section=[[../../Use of sources|Use of sources]], CLAIM | |section=[[../../Use of sources|Use of sources]], CLAIM | ||
|previous=[[../ | |previous=[[../Too much education damaging|Too much education damaging]] | ||
|next=[[../ | |next=[[../LDS "Birth Machines"|LDS "Birth Machines"]] | ||
|notes={{AuthorsDisclaimer}} | |notes={{AuthorsDisclaimer}} | ||
}} | }} | ||
=CLAIM= | =CLAIM= | ||
==The Quotes== | ==The Quotes== | ||
===One Nation under Gods, page 287 | ===One Nation under Gods, page 287 (hardback and paperback)=== | ||
* Is it true that Latter-day Saints do not believe that Jesus Christ was not "conceived in any way that might be considered supernatural" and that He was not "miraculously begotten, for instance, by the Holy Ghost, as Christianity teaches?" | * Is it true that Latter-day Saints do not believe that Jesus Christ was not "conceived in any way that might be considered supernatural" and that He was not "miraculously begotten, for instance, by the Holy Ghost, as Christianity teaches?" | ||
==The References== | ==The References== | ||
===Endnote 38-39, page 575 ( | ===Endnote 38-39, page 577 (hardback); page 575 (paperback)=== | ||
*Brigham Young, April 9, 1852, [http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Journal_of_Discourses/Volume_1/Self-Government%E2%80%94Mysteries,_etc. ''Journal of Discourses'', vol. 1, 51]. | *Brigham Young, April 9, 1852, [http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Journal_of_Discourses/Volume_1/Self-Government%E2%80%94Mysteries,_etc. ''Journal of Discourses'', vol. 1, 51]. | ||
*Brigham Young, August 19, 1866, [http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Journal_of_Discourses/Volume_11/Delegate_Hooper%E2%80%94Beneficial_Effects_of_Polygamy,_etc. ''Journal of Discourses'', vol. 11, 268]. | *Brigham Young, August 19, 1866, [http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Journal_of_Discourses/Volume_11/Delegate_Hooper%E2%80%94Beneficial_Effects_of_Polygamy,_etc. ''Journal of Discourses'', vol. 11, 268]. | ||
==The Problem== | ==The Problem== | ||
Revision as of 03:42, 21 January 2009
| Too much education damaging | A FAIR Analysis of: Criticism of Mormonism/Books/One Nation Under Gods A work by author: Richard Abanes
|
LDS "Birth Machines" |
CLAIM
The Quotes
One Nation under Gods, page 287 (hardback and paperback)
- Is it true that Latter-day Saints do not believe that Jesus Christ was not "conceived in any way that might be considered supernatural" and that He was not "miraculously begotten, for instance, by the Holy Ghost, as Christianity teaches?"
The References
Endnote 38-39, page 577 (hardback); page 575 (paperback)
- Brigham Young, April 9, 1852, Journal of Discourses, vol. 1, 51.
- Brigham Young, August 19, 1866, Journal of Discourses, vol. 11, 268.
The Problem
This misrepresents LDS sources and doctrine.
Brigham Young: JD Vol. 1
Here is more of Brigham's statement:
"Now, remember from this time forth, and for ever, that Jesus Christ was not begotten by the Holy Ghost. I will repeat a little anecdote. I was in conversation with a certain learned professor upon this subject, when I replied, to this idea—"if the Son was begotten by the Holy Ghost, it would be very dangerous to baptize and confirm females, and give the Holy Ghost to them, lest he should beget children, to be palmed upon the Elders by the people, bringing the Elders into great difficulties." (emphasis added)
LDS doctrine teaches that Christ was the Son of God the Father, by the power of the Holy Ghost.
Book of Mormon
- Alma 7꞉10:And behold, he shall be born of Mary, at Jerusalem which is the land of our forefathers, she being a virgin, a precious and chosen vessel, who shall be overshadowed and conceive by the power of the Holy Ghost, and bring forth a son, yea, even the Son of God.
- 1 Nephi 11꞉18-20:And he said unto me: Behold, the virgin whom thou seest is the mother of the Son of God, after the manner of the flesh. And it came to pass that I beheld that she was carried away in the Spirit; and after she had been carried away in the Spirit for the space of a time the angel spake unto me, saying: Look! And I looked and beheld the virgin again, bearing a child in her arms.
Modern references
- "The manner of his conception had been miraculous, and she must have trembled to realize that the responsibility of nurturing this divine child was hers." (Barbara B. Smith, "No Ordinary Child", Liahona, Dec. 1989)
- "...she knew her cousin Elisabeth would lend a sympathetic ear, for had she not also experienced a miraculous conception?" (Mary Pratt Parrish, "Mary", Ensign, Dec. 1971)
Brigham Young: JD Vol. 11
Brigham said:
- This matter [a negative attitude toward plural marriage] was a little changed in the case of the Savior of the world, the Son of the living God. The man Joseph, the husband of Mary, did not, that we know of, have more than one wife, but Mary the wife of Joseph had another husband. On this account infidels have called the Savior a bastard. This is merely a human opinion upon one of the inscrutable doings of the Almighty. That very babe that was cradled in the manger, was begotten, not by Joseph, the husband of Mary, but by another Being. Do you inquire by whom? He was begotten by God our heavenly Father. This answer may suffice you—you need never inquire more upon that point. Jesus Christ is the only begotten of the Father, and he is the Savior of the world, and full of grace and truth. It is not polygamy that men fight against when they persecute this people; but, still, if we continue to be faithful to our God, he will defend us in doing what is right. If it is wrong for a man to have more than one wife at a time, the Lord will reveal it by and by, and he will put it away that it will not be known in the Church. I did not ask Him for the revelation upon this subject. When that revelation was first read to me by Joseph Smith, I plainly saw the great trials and the abuse of it that would be made by many of the Elders, and the trouble and the persecution that it would bring upon this whole people. But the Lord revealed it, and it was my business to accept it.
LDS doctrine holds that God is Christ's literal Father, through the power of the Holy Ghost. The mechanism by which this was accomplished has been speculated upon, but as Brigham said, "this answer may suffice you--you need never inquire more upon that point." We know that God is Christ's father, but how this was accomplished is not revealed, and is unlikely to be.
Brigham's point here, though, is that the Christians of his day are being hypocritical by being offended at the idea of legitimately bearing children by one person when married to another. Brigham points out that Mary was married to Joseph, and yet bore a child that was not his, but God's. There are only two options—one can, as the "infidels" do, assert that Jesus was an illegitimate child. Or, one can conclude that God can, under some circumstances, make it proper for someone to be married to one person, and yet bear the child of another. If this is possible, why then is it impossible for God to command a man to father children by two women to whom he is legitimately married?
Thus, Brigham's argument is not about the mechanism of Christ's conception. Rather, he is using it as a reductio ad absurdum (if taking an argument to its logical conclusion results in an absurdity, then the argument is false). He does this to illustrate the fallacy in his Christian critics' attack on polygamy.
The author distorts Brigham's argument and LDS doctrine into an offensive construction that no Latter-day Saint would recognize as his or her beliefs. We have a right to declare our own doctrine and the interpretation of its implications, not hostile and ill-informed critics like the author of One Nation Under Gods.
Further reading
| Template code | Inserts this reference | Click to edit |
|---|---|---|
| {{To learn more box:responses to: 8: The Mormon Proposition}} | To learn more box:responses to: 8: The Mormon Proposition | edit |
| {{To learn more box:''Under the Banner of Heaven''}} | To learn more about responses to: Under the Banner of Heaven | edit |
| {{To learn more box:responses to: Robert Price}} | To learn more about responses to: Robert Price | edit |
| {{To learn more box:responses to: Ankerberg and Weldon}} | To learn more about responses to: Ankerberg and Weldon | edit |
| {{To learn more box:responses to: Ashamed of Joseph}} | To learn more about responses to: Ashamed of Joseph | edit |
| {{To learn more box:responses to: Beckwith and Moser}} | To learn more about responses to: Beckwith and Moser | edit |
| {{To learn more box:responses to: Beckwith and Parrish}} | To learn more about responses to: Beckwith and Parrish | edit |
| {{To learn more box:responses to: Benjamin Park}} | To learn more about responses to: Benjamin Park | edit |
| {{To learn more box:responses to: Bible versus Joseph Smith}} | To learn more about responses to: Bible versus Joseph Smith | edit |
| {{To learn more box:responses to: Bible versus Book of Mormon}} | To learn more about responses to: Bible versus Book of Mormon | edit |
| {{To learn more box:responses to: ''Big Love''}} | To learn more about responses to: Big Love | edit |
| {{To learn more box:responses to: Brett Metcalfe}} | To learn more about responses to: Brett Metcalfe | edit |
| {{To learn more box:responses to: Bill Maher}} | To learn more about responses to: Bill Maher | edit |
| {{To learn more box:responses to: Bruce H. Porter}} | To learn more about responses to: Bruce H. Porter | edit |
| {{To learn more box:responses to: Carol Wang Shutter}} | To learn more about responses to: Carol Wang Shutter | edit |
| {{To learn more box:responses to: CES Letter}} | To learn more about responses to: CES Letter | edit |
| {{To learn more box:responses to: Charles Larson}} | To learn more about responses to: Charles Larson | edit |
| {{To learn more box:responses to: Christopher Nemelka}} | To learn more about responses to: Christopher Nemelka | edit |
| {{To learn more box:responses to: Colby Townshed}} | To learn more about responses to: Colby Townshed | edit |
| {{To learn more box:responses to: Contender Ministries}} | To learn more about responses to: Contender Ministries | edit |
| {{To learn more box:responses to: Crane and Crane}} | To learn more about responses to: Crane and Crane | edit |
| {{To learn more box:responses to: D. Michael Quinn}} | To learn more about responses to: D. Michael Quinn | edit |
| {{To learn more box:responses to: Dan Vogel}} | To learn more about responses to: Dan Vogel | edit |
| {{To learn more box:responses to: David John Buerger}} | To learn more about responses to: David John Buerger | edit |
| {{To learn more box:responses to: David Persuitte}} | To learn more about responses to: David Persuitte | edit |
| {{To learn more box:responses to: Denver Snuffer}} | To learn more about responses to: Denver Snuffer | edit |
| {{To learn more box:responses to: Dick Bauer}} | To learn more about responses to: Dick Bauer | edit |
| {{To learn more box:responses to: Duwayne R Anderson}} | To learn more about responses to: Duwayne R Anderson | edit |
| {{To learn more box:responses to: Earl Wunderli}} | To learn more about responses to: Earl Wunderli | edit |
| {{To learn more box:responses to: Ed Decker}} | To learn more about responses to: Ed Decker | edit |
| {{To learn more box:responses to: Erikson and Giesler}} | To learn more about responses to: Erikson and Giesler | edit |
| {{To learn more box:responses to: Ernest Taves}} | To learn more about responses to: Ernest Taves | edit |
| {{To learn more box:responses to: Fawn Brodie}} | To learn more about responses to: Fawn Brodie | edit |
| {{To learn more box:responses to: George D Smith}} | To learn more about responses to: George D Smith | edit |
| {{To learn more box:responses to: Grant Palmer}} | To learn more about responses to: Grant Palmer | edit |
| {{To learn more box:responses to: Hank Hanegraaff}} | To learn more about responses to: Hank Hanegraaff | edit |
| {{To learn more box:responses to: Hurlbut-Howe}} | To learn more about responses to: Hurlbut-Howe | edit |
| {{To learn more box:responses to: James Brooke}} | To learn more about responses to: James Brooke | edit |
| {{To learn more box:responses to: James Spencer}} | To learn more about responses to: James Spencer | edit |
| {{To learn more box:responses to: James White}} | To learn more about responses to: James White | edit |
| {{To learn more box:responses to: Jerald and Sandra Tanner}} | To learn more about responses to: Jerald and Sandra Tanner | edit |
| {{To learn more box:responses to: Jesus Christ-Joseph Smith or Search for the Truth DVD}} | To learn more about responses to: Jesus Christ-Joseph Smith or Search for the Truth DVD | edit |
| {{To learn more box:responses to: John Dehlin}} | To learn more about responses to: John Dehlin | edit |
| {{To learn more box:responses to: Jonathan Neville}} | To learn more about responses to: Jonathan Neville | edit |
| {{To learn more box:responses to: Kurt Van Gorden}} | To learn more about responses to: Kurt Van Gorden | edit |
| {{To learn more box:responses to: Laura King Newell and Valeen Tippetts Avery}} | To learn more about responses to: Laura King Newell and Valeen Tippetts Avery | edit |
| {{To learn more box:responses to: Loftes Tryk aka Lofte Payne}} | To learn more about responses to: Loftes Tryk aka Lofte Payne | edit |
| {{To learn more box:responses to: Luke WIlson}} | To learn more about responses to: Luke WIlson | edit |
| {{To learn more box:responses to: Marquardt and Walters}} | To learn more about responses to: Marquardt and Walters | edit |
| {{To learn more box:responses to: Martha Beck}} | To learn more about responses to: Martha Beck | edit |
| {{To learn more box:responses to: Mcgregor Ministries}} | To learn more about responses to: Mcgregor Ministries | edit |
| {{To learn more box:responses to: McKeever and Johnson}} | To learn more about responses to: McKeever and Johnson | edit |
| {{To learn more box:responses to: New Approaches}} | To learn more about responses to: New Approaches to the Book of Mormon | edit |
| {{To learn more box:responses to: Richard Abanes}} | To learn more about responses to: Richard Abanes | edit |
| {{To learn more box:responses to: Richard Van Wagoner}} | To learn more about responses to: Richard Van Wagoner | edit |
| {{To learn more box:responses to: Richard and Joan Ostling}} | To learn more about responses to: Richard and Joan Ostling | edit |
| {{To learn more box:responses to: Rick Grunger}} | To learn more about responses to: Rick Grunger | edit |
| {{To learn more box:responses to: Robert Ritner}} | To learn more about responses to: Robert Ritner | edit |
| {{To learn more box:responses to: Rod Meldrum}} | To learn more about responses to: Rod Meldrum | edit |
| {{To learn more box:responses to: Roger I Anderson}} | To learn more about responses to: Roger I Anderson | edit |
| {{To learn more box:responses to: Ronald V. Huggins}} | To learn more about responses to: Ronald V. Huggins | edit |
| {{To learn more box:responses to: Sally Denton}} | To learn more about responses to: Sally Denton | edit |
| {{To learn more box:responses to: Simon Southerton}} | To learn more about responses to: Simon Southerton | edit |
| {{To learn more box:responses to: Thomas Murphy}} | To learn more about responses to: Thomas Murphy | edit |
| {{To learn more box:responses to: Todd Compton}} | To learn more about responses to: Todd Compton | edit |
| {{To learn more box:responses to: Vernal Holley}} | To learn more about responses to: Vernal Holley | edit |
| {{To learn more box:responses to: Walter Martin}} | To learn more about responses to: Walter Martin | edit |
| {{To learn more box:responses to: Wesley Walters}} | To learn more about responses to: Wesley Walters | edit |
| {{To learn more box:responses to: Will Bagley}} | To learn more about responses to: Will Bagley | edit |