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Difference between revisions of "Criticism of Mormonism/Books/Losing a Lost Tribe: Native Americans, DNA, and the Mormon Church/Chapter 10"
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===Claims made in "Chapter 10: The Lord's University"=== | ===Claims made in "Chapter 10: The Lord's University"=== | ||
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====135==== | ====135==== | ||
| − | | | + | {{IndexClaim |
| + | |claim= | ||
* Mormons believe that if there is a conflict between science and religion, that the science is incorrect. | * Mormons believe that if there is a conflict between science and religion, that the science is incorrect. | ||
| − | | | + | |response= |
* ''Some'' Mormons may believe this. Many others believe that there is no true conflict between science and religion, but realize that scientific ideas may be inaccurate based on limited data, ''or'' that religious understandings or preconceptions may need to be modified. The Church believes that the Lord "will yet reveal many great and important things pertaining to the Kingdom of God" ({{s||A+of+F|1|9}}), which presupposes that previous ideas may be inadequate. | * ''Some'' Mormons may believe this. Many others believe that there is no true conflict between science and religion, but realize that scientific ideas may be inaccurate based on limited data, ''or'' that religious understandings or preconceptions may need to be modified. The Church believes that the Lord "will yet reveal many great and important things pertaining to the Kingdom of God" ({{s||A+of+F|1|9}}), which presupposes that previous ideas may be inadequate. | ||
* [[Mormonism and science]] | * [[Mormonism and science]] | ||
{{CriticalWork:Southerton:Losing:Repeat:Most Mormons}} | {{CriticalWork:Southerton:Losing:Repeat:Most Mormons}} | ||
| − | | | + | |authorsources= |
| − | |||
*{{MD1|start=no page number given}} | *{{MD1|start=no page number given}} | ||
* ''Note'': this reference is useless for establishing what statement of Elder McConkie's is being referenced. | * ''Note'': this reference is useless for establishing what statement of Elder McConkie's is being referenced. | ||
| − | + | }} | |
| − | |||
| − | |||
====135-136==== | ====135-136==== | ||
| − | | | + | {{IndexClaim |
| + | |claim= | ||
* Mormonism reserves the right to identify scientific truth. | * Mormonism reserves the right to identify scientific truth. | ||
| − | | | + | |response= |
* {{Absurd}}: the author presents no evidence of this assertion. | * {{Absurd}}: the author presents no evidence of this assertion. | ||
* [[Mormonism and science]] | * [[Mormonism and science]] | ||
{{CriticalWork:Southerton:Losing:Repeat:Most Mormons}} | {{CriticalWork:Southerton:Losing:Repeat:Most Mormons}} | ||
| − | | | + | |authorsources= |
| − | |||
*No sources provided. | *No sources provided. | ||
| − | + | }} | |
| − | |||
| − | |||
====136==== | ====136==== | ||
| − | | | + | {{IndexClaim |
| + | |claim= | ||
* Mormonism declares that it "corners the market" on religious truth. | * Mormonism declares that it "corners the market" on religious truth. | ||
| − | | | + | |response= |
* {{FalseStatement}}: Latter-day Saints recognize that there is truth and good in all religions, and that God works through men of science to reveal truth as well. | * {{FalseStatement}}: Latter-day Saints recognize that there is truth and good in all religions, and that God works through men of science to reveal truth as well. | ||
| − | * [[Salvation of non-members]] | + | * [[Plan of salvation/Salvation of non-members]] |
| − | | | + | |authorsources= |
| − | |||
*{{s||JS-History|1|19}} | *{{s||JS-History|1|19}} | ||
| − | + | }} | |
| − | |||
====136==== | ====136==== | ||
| − | | | + | {{IndexClaim |
| + | |claim= | ||
* Joseph Smith declared that all other religions were false. | * Joseph Smith declared that all other religions were false. | ||
| − | | | + | |response= |
* [[MormonFAQ/Myths and Questions#"But Joseph Smith said that all churches were wrong, and that they were an 'abomination' in God's sight. Doesn't that sound bigoted?"|"Joseph Smith said that all churches were wrong, and that they were an 'abomination' in God's sight. Doesn't that sound bigoted?"]] | * [[MormonFAQ/Myths and Questions#"But Joseph Smith said that all churches were wrong, and that they were an 'abomination' in God's sight. Doesn't that sound bigoted?"|"Joseph Smith said that all churches were wrong, and that they were an 'abomination' in God's sight. Doesn't that sound bigoted?"]] | ||
* Joseph also said: | * Joseph also said: | ||
: Have the Presbyterians any truth? Yes. Have the Baptists, Methodists, etc., any truth? Yes. They all have a little truth mixed with error. We should gather all the good and true principles in the world and treasure them up, or we shall not come out true "Mormons."{{ref|hc.5.517}} | : Have the Presbyterians any truth? Yes. Have the Baptists, Methodists, etc., any truth? Yes. They all have a little truth mixed with error. We should gather all the good and true principles in the world and treasure them up, or we shall not come out true "Mormons."{{ref|hc.5.517}} | ||
| − | | | + | |authorsources= |
*{{s||JS-History|1|19}} | *{{s||JS-History|1|19}} | ||
| − | + | }} | |
| − | |||
====136==== | ====136==== | ||
| − | | | + | {{IndexClaim |
| − | * LDS think that all other religions are the "whore of the earth" and "church of the devil" | + | |claim= |
| − | | | + | *Do LDS think that all other religions are the "whore of the earth" and "church of the devil?" |
| + | |response= | ||
* {{FalseStatement}} | * {{FalseStatement}} | ||
| − | * [[ | + | * [[Book of Mormon/Great and abominable church]] |
| − | * [[Salvation of non-members]] | + | * [[Plan of salvation/Salvation of non-members]] |
| − | | | + | |authorsources= |
| − | |||
*{{s|1|Nephi|14|10}} | *{{s|1|Nephi|14|10}} | ||
| − | + | }} | |
| − | |||
====136==== | ====136==== | ||
| − | | | + | {{IndexClaim |
| + | |claim= | ||
* The current generation of Mormons is taught a selective view of Church history | * The current generation of Mormons is taught a selective view of Church history | ||
| − | | | + | |response= |
* ''All'' teaching is selective, in any domain or field. | * ''All'' teaching is selective, in any domain or field. | ||
* {{SourceDistortion}}: [[One_Nation_Under_Gods/Use_of_sources/Boyd_K._Packer_on_the_truth|Boyd K. Packer — Mantle and Intellect]] | * {{SourceDistortion}}: [[One_Nation_Under_Gods/Use_of_sources/Boyd_K._Packer_on_the_truth|Boyd K. Packer — Mantle and Intellect]] | ||
| − | * [[Censorship and revision of | + | * [[Church history/Censorship and revision of]] |
{{CriticalWork:Southerton:Losing:Repeat:Most Mormons}} | {{CriticalWork:Southerton:Losing:Repeat:Most Mormons}} | ||
| − | | | + | |authorsources= |
| − | |||
*Boyd K. Packer, "The Mantle is Far, Far Greater than the Intellect," ''BYU Studies'', 21:259 (1981) | *Boyd K. Packer, "The Mantle is Far, Far Greater than the Intellect," ''BYU Studies'', 21:259 (1981) | ||
| − | + | }} | |
| − | |||
====137==== | ====137==== | ||
| − | | | + | {{IndexClaim |
| + | |claim= | ||
* Many church members are "blissfully unaware" of Brigham Young's practice of polygamy | * Many church members are "blissfully unaware" of Brigham Young's practice of polygamy | ||
| − | | | + | |response= |
* {{MindReading}}: how does the author know what members know? Brigham Young's polygamy is well known ''out'' of the Church. How likely is it that members remain unaware? | * {{MindReading}}: how does the author know what members know? Brigham Young's polygamy is well known ''out'' of the Church. How likely is it that members remain unaware? | ||
| − | * [[Brigham Young | + | * [[Brigham Young/Polygamy]] |
{{CriticalWork:Southerton:Losing:Repeat:Most Mormons}} | {{CriticalWork:Southerton:Losing:Repeat:Most Mormons}} | ||
| − | | | + | |authorsources= |
| − | |||
*''Teachings of the Presidents of the Church: Brigham Young'', 1997 | *''Teachings of the Presidents of the Church: Brigham Young'', 1997 | ||
| − | + | }} | |
| − | |||
====137==== | ====137==== | ||
| − | | | + | {{IndexClaim |
| + | |claim= | ||
* Senior church leaders prefer that members not question changes in temple ordinances. | * Senior church leaders prefer that members not question changes in temple ordinances. | ||
| − | | | + | |response= |
* Church leaders "prefer" that members keep their covenants and not discuss the temple ordinances outside the temple. | * Church leaders "prefer" that members keep their covenants and not discuss the temple ordinances outside the temple. | ||
* {{MindReading}}: members may discuss the endowment only in the temple; they may ask any question they like there of the temple president. | * {{MindReading}}: members may discuss the endowment only in the temple; they may ask any question they like there of the temple president. | ||
| − | * [[ | + | * [[Temples/Endowment/Changes]] |
| − | | | + | |authorsources= |
| − | |||
*No sources given. | *No sources given. | ||
| − | + | }} | |
| − | |||
| − | |||
====138==== | ====138==== | ||
| − | | | + | {{IndexClaim |
| + | |claim= | ||
* LDS ecclesiastical leaders expect "unquestioning obedience" of church members. | * LDS ecclesiastical leaders expect "unquestioning obedience" of church members. | ||
| − | | | + | |response= |
* Most bishops and stake presidents would find this unlikely, if not laughable. | * Most bishops and stake presidents would find this unlikely, if not laughable. | ||
* The author is a former LDS bishop. Did he go contrary to Church teaching and demand this? If so, his action was wrong. If not, he is evidence against his own claim. | * The author is a former LDS bishop. Did he go contrary to Church teaching and demand this? If so, his action was wrong. If not, he is evidence against his own claim. | ||
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* {{Ensign1|author=Dallin H. Oaks|article=Unselfish Service|date=May 2009|start=93–96}} {{link|url=http://www.lds.org/ldsorg/v/index.jsp?hideNav=1&locale=0&sourceId=118b230bac7f0210VgnVCM100000176f620a____&vgnextoid=2354fccf2b7db010VgnVCM1000004d82620aRCRD}} | * {{Ensign1|author=Dallin H. Oaks|article=Unselfish Service|date=May 2009|start=93–96}} {{link|url=http://www.lds.org/ldsorg/v/index.jsp?hideNav=1&locale=0&sourceId=118b230bac7f0210VgnVCM100000176f620a____&vgnextoid=2354fccf2b7db010VgnVCM1000004d82620aRCRD}} | ||
{{CriticalWork:Southerton:Losing:Repeat:Leaders}} | {{CriticalWork:Southerton:Losing:Repeat:Leaders}} | ||
| − | | | + | |authorsources= |
| − | |||
*No sources given. | *No sources given. | ||
| − | + | }} | |
| − | |||
| − | |||
====139==== | ====139==== | ||
| − | | | + | {{IndexClaim |
| + | |claim= | ||
* The Church "unofficially" discourages prayer to "Mother in Heaven" | * The Church "unofficially" discourages prayer to "Mother in Heaven" | ||
| − | | | + | |response= |
* Surely it is the Church's privilege to instruct its members in what it believes and condones, and what it does not? Members then make their own decision. | * Surely it is the Church's privilege to instruct its members in what it believes and condones, and what it does not? Members then make their own decision. | ||
| − | * [[Heavenly Mother]] | + | * [[Nature of God/Heavenly Mother]] |
| − | | | + | |authorsources= |
| − | |||
*AAUP Committee on Academic Freedom and Tenure. 1998. "Report of Committee A," ''Academe: Bulletin of the American Association of University Professors.'' Sept./Oct.: 71-4. | *AAUP Committee on Academic Freedom and Tenure. 1998. "Report of Committee A," ''Academe: Bulletin of the American Association of University Professors.'' Sept./Oct.: 71-4. | ||
| − | + | }} | |
| − | |||
====140==== | ====140==== | ||
| − | | | + | {{IndexClaim |
| + | |claim= | ||
* Church leaders are "loath" to make unequivocal statements of doctrine. | * Church leaders are "loath" to make unequivocal statements of doctrine. | ||
| − | | | + | |response= |
* {{Absurd}}: a review of any general conference demonstrates that leaders are quite happy to make unequivocal statements. | * {{Absurd}}: a review of any general conference demonstrates that leaders are quite happy to make unequivocal statements. | ||
* If an area has no unequivocal statements, this is probably because it is not "doctrine," and the Church has no official position. Leaders are rightly wary of being misconstrued in such areas. | * If an area has no unequivocal statements, this is probably because it is not "doctrine," and the Church has no official position. Leaders are rightly wary of being misconstrued in such areas. | ||
| − | * [[Changing | + | * [[Church doctrine/Changing]] |
{{CriticalWork:Southerton:Losing:Repeat:Leaders}} | {{CriticalWork:Southerton:Losing:Repeat:Leaders}} | ||
| − | | | + | |authorsources= |
| − | |||
*No sources given. | *No sources given. | ||
| − | + | }} | |
| − | |||
====140==== | ====140==== | ||
| − | | | + | {{IndexClaim |
| + | |claim= | ||
* BYU's emphasis is on conformity rather than personal freedom. | * BYU's emphasis is on conformity rather than personal freedom. | ||
| − | | | + | |response= |
* {{Absurd}}: the only source is the student honor code. How does this erode personal freedom? Every prospective student is aware of it, and agrees to abide by it. If he/she wants to do otherwise, he/she can easily choose to go elsewhere. | * {{Absurd}}: the only source is the student honor code. How does this erode personal freedom? Every prospective student is aware of it, and agrees to abide by it. If he/she wants to do otherwise, he/she can easily choose to go elsewhere. | ||
* [[Authoritarianism and Church leaders]] | * [[Authoritarianism and Church leaders]] | ||
| − | | | + | |authorsources= |
| − | |||
*Student Honor Code, Brigham Young University | *Student Honor Code, Brigham Young University | ||
| − | + | }} | |
| − | |||
====141==== | ====141==== | ||
| − | | | + | {{IndexClaim |
| + | |claim= | ||
* CES insists that gospel learning takes precedence over secular learning. | * CES insists that gospel learning takes precedence over secular learning. | ||
| − | | | + | |response= |
* {{Absurd}}: Why is it strange that a group hired for ''religious'' instruction to supplement college or university work should want ''religion'' taught? | * {{Absurd}}: Why is it strange that a group hired for ''religious'' instruction to supplement college or university work should want ''religion'' taught? | ||
* [[Mormonism and education]] {{nw}} | * [[Mormonism and education]] {{nw}} | ||
| − | | | + | |authorsources= |
| − | |||
*The only sources referred to are "parents." | *The only sources referred to are "parents." | ||
| − | + | }} | |
| − | |||
====142==== | ====142==== | ||
| − | | | + | {{IndexClaim |
| + | |claim= | ||
* CES instructs students not to attempt to locate Book of Mormon geographical locations | * CES instructs students not to attempt to locate Book of Mormon geographical locations | ||
| − | | | + | |response= |
{{CriticalWork:Southerton:Losing:Repeat:Members discouraged}} | {{CriticalWork:Southerton:Losing:Repeat:Members discouraged}} | ||
| − | | | + | |authorsources= |
* No source provided. | * No source provided. | ||
| − | + | }} | |
| − | |||
| − | |||
====142==== | ====142==== | ||
| − | | | + | {{IndexClaim |
| + | |claim= | ||
* Limited geography theories advanced by FARMS are "much too controversial" for CES students | * Limited geography theories advanced by FARMS are "much too controversial" for CES students | ||
| − | | | + | |response= |
* {{Prejudicial}}: where is the evidence for this claim? | * {{Prejudicial}}: where is the evidence for this claim? | ||
| − | * [[Book of Mormon | + | * [[Book of Mormon/Geography/New World/Limited Geography Theory]] |
| − | | | + | |authorsources= |
| − | |||
*No sources given. | *No sources given. | ||
| − | + | }} | |
| − | |||
====142==== | ====142==== | ||
| − | | | + | {{IndexClaim |
| + | |claim= | ||
* Spencer W. Kimball believed in a hemispheric Book of Mormon geography | * Spencer W. Kimball believed in a hemispheric Book of Mormon geography | ||
| − | | | + | |response= |
{{CriticalWork:Southerton:Losing:Repeat:Leaders}} | {{CriticalWork:Southerton:Losing:Repeat:Leaders}} | ||
| − | | | + | |authorsources= |
| − | |||
*A talk by President Kimball given in 1977 (not listed in "Works Cited" section) | *A talk by President Kimball given in 1977 (not listed in "Works Cited" section) | ||
| − | + | }} | |
| − | |||
| − | |||
====142==== | ====142==== | ||
| − | | | + | {{IndexClaim |
| + | |claim= | ||
* Church members are shocked at the "limited archaeological evidence" for the Book of Mormon | * Church members are shocked at the "limited archaeological evidence" for the Book of Mormon | ||
| − | | | + | |response= |
| − | * [[Book of Mormon | + | * [[Book of Mormon/Archeology]] |
{{CriticalWork:Southerton:Losing:Repeat:Most Mormons}} | {{CriticalWork:Southerton:Losing:Repeat:Most Mormons}} | ||
| − | | | + | |authorsources= |
| − | |||
*No sources given. | *No sources given. | ||
| − | + | }} | |
| − | |||
| − | |||
====143==== | ====143==== | ||
| − | | | + | {{IndexClaim |
| + | |claim= | ||
* LDS apologists continue to tell members how "scientists continue to get it wrong." | * LDS apologists continue to tell members how "scientists continue to get it wrong." | ||
| − | | | + | |response= |
{{CriticalWork:Southerton:Losing:Repeat:Apologists}} | {{CriticalWork:Southerton:Losing:Repeat:Apologists}} | ||
* {{Absurd}}: Some LDS DNA apologists, for example, are world-class experts in their field. These authors object to the misappropriate and misapplication of science, including that found in the work here under review: | * {{Absurd}}: Some LDS DNA apologists, for example, are world-class experts in their field. These authors object to the misappropriate and misapplication of science, including that found in the work here under review: | ||
| Line 238: | Line 211: | ||
* {{JBMS-12-1-5}} | * {{JBMS-12-1-5}} | ||
* Note that the author merely dismisses these experts, he does not engage their evidence or arguments. | * Note that the author merely dismisses these experts, he does not engage their evidence or arguments. | ||
| − | | | + | |authorsources= |
| − | |||
*No sources given. | *No sources given. | ||
| − | + | }} | |
| − | |||
| − | |||
====143==== | ====143==== | ||
| − | | | + | {{IndexClaim |
| + | |claim= | ||
* Most members follow their leaders without question. | * Most members follow their leaders without question. | ||
| − | | | + | |response= |
* Most bishops and stake presidents would find this unlikely, if not laughable. | * Most bishops and stake presidents would find this unlikely, if not laughable. | ||
* The author is a former LDS bishop. Did he go contrary to Church teaching and demand this? If so, his action was wrong. If not, he is evidence against his own claim. | * The author is a former LDS bishop. Did he go contrary to Church teaching and demand this? If so, his action was wrong. If not, he is evidence against his own claim. | ||
| Line 253: | Line 224: | ||
* [[Authoritarianism and Church leaders]] | * [[Authoritarianism and Church leaders]] | ||
* {{Ensign1|author=Dallin H. Oaks|article=Unselfish Service|date=May 2009|start=93–96}} {{link|url=http://www.lds.org/ldsorg/v/index.jsp?hideNav=1&locale=0&sourceId=118b230bac7f0210VgnVCM100000176f620a____&vgnextoid=2354fccf2b7db010VgnVCM1000004d82620aRCRD}} | * {{Ensign1|author=Dallin H. Oaks|article=Unselfish Service|date=May 2009|start=93–96}} {{link|url=http://www.lds.org/ldsorg/v/index.jsp?hideNav=1&locale=0&sourceId=118b230bac7f0210VgnVCM100000176f620a____&vgnextoid=2354fccf2b7db010VgnVCM1000004d82620aRCRD}} | ||
| − | | | + | |authorsources= |
| − | |||
*No sources given. | *No sources given. | ||
| − | + | }} | |
| − | |||
| − | |||
====143==== | ====143==== | ||
| − | | | + | {{IndexClaim |
| + | |claim= | ||
* LDS theology supports a literal interpretation of the creation of man. | * LDS theology supports a literal interpretation of the creation of man. | ||
| − | | | + | |response= |
| − | |||
* [[Mormonism and science]] | * [[Mormonism and science]] | ||
| − | | | + | * [[Mormonism and science/Evolution]] |
| − | + | |authorsources= | |
*No sources given. | *No sources given. | ||
| − | + | }} | |
| − | |||
====143==== | ====143==== | ||
| − | | | + | {{IndexClaim |
| + | |claim= | ||
* LDS theology supports a literal interpretation of the tower of Babel. | * LDS theology supports a literal interpretation of the tower of Babel. | ||
| − | | | + | |response= |
* [[Mormonism and science]] {{nw}} | * [[Mormonism and science]] {{nw}} | ||
| − | | | + | |authorsources= |
| − | |||
*No sources given. | *No sources given. | ||
| − | + | }} | |
| − | |||
====143==== | ====143==== | ||
| − | | | + | {{IndexClaim |
| + | |claim= | ||
* LDS theology supports a literal interpretation of the Flood | * LDS theology supports a literal interpretation of the Flood | ||
| − | | | + | |response= |
| − | * [[Global or local Flood]] | + | * [[Mormonism and science/Global or local Flood]] |
| − | | | + | |authorsources= |
| − | |||
*No sources given. | *No sources given. | ||
| − | + | }} | |
| − | |||
====143-144==== | ====143-144==== | ||
| − | | | + | {{IndexClaim |
| + | |claim= | ||
* The perception is that the Church has officially denounced evolution. | * The perception is that the Church has officially denounced evolution. | ||
| − | | | + | |response= |
* This perception, however, is false. | * This perception, however, is false. | ||
| − | * [[Evolution]]: all official statements. | + | * [[Mormonism and science/Evolution]]: all official statements. |
| − | | | + | |authorsources= |
| − | |||
*McConkie, ''Mormon Doctrine'', 1979. | *McConkie, ''Mormon Doctrine'', 1979. | ||
*Boyd K. Packer, "Our Moral Environment," ''Ensign'', May 1992, p. 66. (This talk does not specifically mention the theory of evolution - Packer is stating that we are not simply "advanced animals," which the author includes in his quote.) | *Boyd K. Packer, "Our Moral Environment," ''Ensign'', May 1992, p. 66. (This talk does not specifically mention the theory of evolution - Packer is stating that we are not simply "advanced animals," which the author includes in his quote.) | ||
| − | + | }} | |
| − | + | ====144==== | |
| − | + | {{IndexClaim | |
| − | | | + | |claim= |
* Henry Eyring (father of Henry B. Eyring) indicated that he could accept evolution. | * Henry Eyring (father of Henry B. Eyring) indicated that he could accept evolution. | ||
| − | | | + | |response= |
* If a well-known scientist could publicly express support for evolution and differ with some Church leaders, how does this contribute to the "perception" that the Church has "officially denounced evolution"? | * If a well-known scientist could publicly express support for evolution and differ with some Church leaders, how does this contribute to the "perception" that the Church has "officially denounced evolution"? | ||
* The book cited was published and distributed to LDS youth—hardly the act of a Church trying to stamp out any support for evolution. | * The book cited was published and distributed to LDS youth—hardly the act of a Church trying to stamp out any support for evolution. | ||
| − | | | + | |authorsources= |
| − | |||
*Henry Eyring, ''Reflections of a Scientist'', 1998. | *Henry Eyring, ''Reflections of a Scientist'', 1998. | ||
| − | + | }} | |
| − | |||
====145==== | ====145==== | ||
| − | | | + | {{IndexClaim |
| + | |claim= | ||
* Eyring "avoided singling out senior leaders of the church for the bad press that evolution has received in LDS circles." | * Eyring "avoided singling out senior leaders of the church for the bad press that evolution has received in LDS circles." | ||
| − | | | + | |response= |
* Eyring was not shy about demonstrating where he and (say) President Joseph Fielding Smith differed on this subject. | * Eyring was not shy about demonstrating where he and (say) President Joseph Fielding Smith differed on this subject. | ||
| − | | | + | |authorsources= |
| − | |||
*Henry Eyring, ''Reflections of a Scientist'', 1998. | *Henry Eyring, ''Reflections of a Scientist'', 1998. | ||
| − | + | }} | |
| − | |||
====146==== | ====146==== | ||
| − | | | + | {{IndexClaim |
| + | |claim= | ||
* The Garden of Eden was in Jackson County, Missouri | * The Garden of Eden was in Jackson County, Missouri | ||
| − | | | + | |response= |
| − | * [[Garden of Eden in Missouri | + | * [[Garden of Eden in Missouri]] |
| − | | | + | |authorsources= |
| − | |||
*{{s||DC|116|}} | *{{s||DC|116|}} | ||
*{{s||DC|117|8-11}} | *{{s||DC|117|8-11}} | ||
| − | + | }} | |
| − | |||
====146==== | ====146==== | ||
| − | | | + | {{IndexClaim |
| + | |claim= | ||
* Mormons believe that the continents separated only after a global flood. | * Mormons believe that the continents separated only after a global flood. | ||
| − | | | + | |response= |
* ''Some'' Mormons believe this. Others do not. The Church has no official view on the matter. | * ''Some'' Mormons believe this. Others do not. The Church has no official view on the matter. | ||
| − | * [[Global or local Flood]] | + | * [[Mormonism and science/Global or local Flood]] |
| − | | | + | |authorsources= |
| − | |||
*{{s||DC|133|23-24}} | *{{s||DC|133|23-24}} | ||
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====146==== | ====146==== | ||
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* Mormons are "compelled" to believe in a global flood as symbolizing the "baptism of the earth" | * Mormons are "compelled" to believe in a global flood as symbolizing the "baptism of the earth" | ||
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* {{Absurd}}: how can Mormons be "compelled" to believe in anything? | * {{Absurd}}: how can Mormons be "compelled" to believe in anything? | ||
* ''Some'' Mormons believe this. Others do not. The Church has no official view on the matter. | * ''Some'' Mormons believe this. Others do not. The Church has no official view on the matter. | ||
| − | * [[Global or local Flood]] | + | * [[Mormonism and science/Global or local Flood]] |
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*No sources given. | *No sources given. | ||
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====148==== | ====148==== | ||
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* FARMS' goal is to deter members from reading any book that challenges their faith | * FARMS' goal is to deter members from reading any book that challenges their faith | ||
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* {{MindReading}} | * {{MindReading}} | ||
| − | * [[ | + | * [[Mormonism and education/Church position on reading critical material]] |
{{CriticalWork:Southerton:Losing:Repeat:Apologists}} | {{CriticalWork:Southerton:Losing:Repeat:Apologists}} | ||
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*The author states that this is an "obvious" conclusion. | *The author states that this is an "obvious" conclusion. | ||
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Revision as of 21:54, 17 February 2010
| Chapter 9 | A FAIR Analysis of: Losing a Lost Tribe: Native Americans, DNA, and the Mormon Church A work by author: Simon G. Southerton
|
Chapter 11 |
Claims made in "Chapter 10: The Lord's University"
135
Claim
- Mormons believe that if there is a conflict between science and religion, that the science is incorrect.
Author's source(s) - Bruce R. McConkie, Mormon Doctrine, 2nd edition, (Salt Lake City: Bookcraft, 1966), no page number given. GL direct link
- Note: this reference is useless for establishing what statement of Elder McConkie's is being referenced.
- Some Mormons may believe this. Many others believe that there is no true conflict between science and religion, but realize that scientific ideas may be inaccurate based on limited data, or that religious understandings or preconceptions may need to be modified. The Church believes that the Lord "will yet reveal many great and important things pertaining to the Kingdom of God" (A+of+F 1꞉9), which presupposes that previous ideas may be inadequate.
- Mormonism and science
Logical Fallacy: Bandwagon (Appeal to the Masses)—The author believes that this claim is true simply because all of his or her buddies believe that it is true, despite the lack of actual evidence supporting it.
The author frequently makes claims about what "most Mormons" believe. How does he know? What surveys has he done? The author strives to portray members as gullible, ill-informed, confused, and manipulated. But, he presents no evidence save his opinion. Why ought members trust someone who obviously has such a low opinion of them?
135-136
Claim
- Mormonism reserves the right to identify scientific truth.
Author's source(s) - No sources provided.
- Absurd claim: the author presents no evidence of this assertion.
- Mormonism and science
Logical Fallacy: Bandwagon (Appeal to the Masses)—The author believes that this claim is true simply because all of his or her buddies believe that it is true, despite the lack of actual evidence supporting it.
The author frequently makes claims about what "most Mormons" believe. How does he know? What surveys has he done? The author strives to portray members as gullible, ill-informed, confused, and manipulated. But, he presents no evidence save his opinion. Why ought members trust someone who obviously has such a low opinion of them?
136
Claim
- Mormonism declares that it "corners the market" on religious truth.
Author's source(s) Response
- The author's claim is false: Latter-day Saints recognize that there is truth and good in all religions, and that God works through men of science to reveal truth as well.
- Plan of salvation/Salvation of non-members
136
Claim
- Joseph Smith declared that all other religions were false.
Author's source(s) Response
- "Joseph Smith said that all churches were wrong, and that they were an 'abomination' in God's sight. Doesn't that sound bigoted?"
- Joseph also said:
- Have the Presbyterians any truth? Yes. Have the Baptists, Methodists, etc., any truth? Yes. They all have a little truth mixed with error. We should gather all the good and true principles in the world and treasure them up, or we shall not come out true "Mormons."[1]
136
Claim
- Do LDS think that all other religions are the "whore of the earth" and "church of the devil?"
Author's source(s) Response
- The author's claim is false
- Book of Mormon/Great and abominable church
- Plan of salvation/Salvation of non-members
136
Claim
- The current generation of Mormons is taught a selective view of Church history
Author's source(s) - Boyd K. Packer, "The Mantle is Far, Far Greater than the Intellect," BYU Studies, 21:259 (1981)
- All teaching is selective, in any domain or field.
- Misrepresentation of source: Boyd K. Packer — Mantle and Intellect
- Church history/Censorship and revision of
Logical Fallacy: Bandwagon (Appeal to the Masses)—The author believes that this claim is true simply because all of his or her buddies believe that it is true, despite the lack of actual evidence supporting it.
The author frequently makes claims about what "most Mormons" believe. How does he know? What surveys has he done? The author strives to portray members as gullible, ill-informed, confused, and manipulated. But, he presents no evidence save his opinion. Why ought members trust someone who obviously has such a low opinion of them?
137
Claim
- Many church members are "blissfully unaware" of Brigham Young's practice of polygamy
Author's source(s) - Teachings of the Presidents of the Church: Brigham Young, 1997
- Mind reading: author has no way of knowing this.: how does the author know what members know? Brigham Young's polygamy is well known out of the Church. How likely is it that members remain unaware?
- Brigham Young/Polygamy
Logical Fallacy: Bandwagon (Appeal to the Masses)—The author believes that this claim is true simply because all of his or her buddies believe that it is true, despite the lack of actual evidence supporting it.
The author frequently makes claims about what "most Mormons" believe. How does he know? What surveys has he done? The author strives to portray members as gullible, ill-informed, confused, and manipulated. But, he presents no evidence save his opinion. Why ought members trust someone who obviously has such a low opinion of them?
137
Claim
- Senior church leaders prefer that members not question changes in temple ordinances.
Author's source(s) - No sources given.
- Church leaders "prefer" that members keep their covenants and not discuss the temple ordinances outside the temple.
- Mind reading: author has no way of knowing this.: members may discuss the endowment only in the temple; they may ask any question they like there of the temple president.
- Temples/Endowment/Changes
138
Claim
- LDS ecclesiastical leaders expect "unquestioning obedience" of church members.
Author's source(s) - No sources given.
- Most bishops and stake presidents would find this unlikely, if not laughable.
- The author is a former LDS bishop. Did he go contrary to Church teaching and demand this? If so, his action was wrong. If not, he is evidence against his own claim.
- Authoritarianism and Church leaders
- Dallin H. Oaks, "Unselfish Service," Ensign (May 2009): 93–96. off-site
Logical Fallacy: Tu Quoque/Appeal to Hypocrisy—The author tries to discredit the validity of someone's position by asserting their failure to act consistently.
The author is determined to represent LDS leaders as either bumbling, ill-informed, manipulative, or overwhelmed. The author never acknowledges that the LDS do not believe in infallibility in their leaders. The author finally admits on p. 205 that there is no official geography—why, then, does he bother to reiterate the views of various leaders as if this were some kind of problem? Since even he agrees there is no official geography, what difference does it make if members and leaders are of differing views, or if they even change their minds?
139
Claim
- The Church "unofficially" discourages prayer to "Mother in Heaven"
Author's source(s) - AAUP Committee on Academic Freedom and Tenure. 1998. "Report of Committee A," Academe: Bulletin of the American Association of University Professors. Sept./Oct.: 71-4.
- Surely it is the Church's privilege to instruct its members in what it believes and condones, and what it does not? Members then make their own decision.
- Nature of God/Heavenly Mother
140
Claim
- Church leaders are "loath" to make unequivocal statements of doctrine.
Author's source(s) - No sources given.
- Absurd claim: a review of any general conference demonstrates that leaders are quite happy to make unequivocal statements.
- If an area has no unequivocal statements, this is probably because it is not "doctrine," and the Church has no official position. Leaders are rightly wary of being misconstrued in such areas.
- Church doctrine/Changing
Logical Fallacy: Tu Quoque/Appeal to Hypocrisy—The author tries to discredit the validity of someone's position by asserting their failure to act consistently.
The author is determined to represent LDS leaders as either bumbling, ill-informed, manipulative, or overwhelmed. The author never acknowledges that the LDS do not believe in infallibility in their leaders. The author finally admits on p. 205 that there is no official geography—why, then, does he bother to reiterate the views of various leaders as if this were some kind of problem? Since even he agrees there is no official geography, what difference does it make if members and leaders are of differing views, or if they even change their minds?
140
Claim
- BYU's emphasis is on conformity rather than personal freedom.
Author's source(s) - Student Honor Code, Brigham Young University
- Absurd claim: the only source is the student honor code. How does this erode personal freedom? Every prospective student is aware of it, and agrees to abide by it. If he/she wants to do otherwise, he/she can easily choose to go elsewhere.
- Authoritarianism and Church leaders
141
Claim
- CES insists that gospel learning takes precedence over secular learning.
Author's source(s) - The only sources referred to are "parents."
- Absurd claim: Why is it strange that a group hired for religious instruction to supplement college or university work should want religion taught?
- Mormonism and education [needs work]
142
Claim
- CES instructs students not to attempt to locate Book of Mormon geographical locations
Author's source(s) - No source provided.
Logical Fallacy: Black-or-White—The author presents two alternative states as the only two possibilities, when more possibilities exist.
Members are encouraged not to focus on the geography to the exclusion of the Book's more important spiritual message. BYU and FARMS (now the Maxwell Institute) have published a great deal of member scholarship on geography, however. If the Church opposed this, it could easily be stopped.Ironically, the author knows that there is no official geography (see p. 205) but continues to act as if it scandalous that the Church does not preach a non-official idea as official—perhaps hoping we will conclude that the model he describes is the official one which the Church dare not renounce.
142
Claim
- Limited geography theories advanced by FARMS are "much too controversial" for CES students
Author's source(s) - No sources given.
- Prejudicial or loaded language: where is the evidence for this claim?
- Book of Mormon/Geography/New World/Limited Geography Theory
142
Claim
- Spencer W. Kimball believed in a hemispheric Book of Mormon geography
Author's source(s) - A talk by President Kimball given in 1977 (not listed in "Works Cited" section)
Logical Fallacy: Tu Quoque/Appeal to Hypocrisy—The author tries to discredit the validity of someone's position by asserting their failure to act consistently.
The author is determined to represent LDS leaders as either bumbling, ill-informed, manipulative, or overwhelmed. The author never acknowledges that the LDS do not believe in infallibility in their leaders. The author finally admits on p. 205 that there is no official geography—why, then, does he bother to reiterate the views of various leaders as if this were some kind of problem? Since even he agrees there is no official geography, what difference does it make if members and leaders are of differing views, or if they even change their minds?
142
Claim
- Church members are shocked at the "limited archaeological evidence" for the Book of Mormon
Author's source(s) - No sources given.
Logical Fallacy: Bandwagon (Appeal to the Masses)—The author believes that this claim is true simply because all of his or her buddies believe that it is true, despite the lack of actual evidence supporting it.
The author frequently makes claims about what "most Mormons" believe. How does he know? What surveys has he done? The author strives to portray members as gullible, ill-informed, confused, and manipulated. But, he presents no evidence save his opinion. Why ought members trust someone who obviously has such a low opinion of them?
143
Claim
- LDS apologists continue to tell members how "scientists continue to get it wrong."
Author's source(s) - No sources given.
Logical Fallacy: Appeal to Emotion—The author attempts to manipulate the reader's emotional response instead of presenting a valid argument.
<Rather than interact with arguments the author labels "apologetic" (i.e., any interpretation which does not suit his naive view of the matter), the author hopes to marginalize them and reject them from consideration by claiming they are somehow novel, contrary to the Book of Mormon's plain meaning, or driven by desperation.Many statements indicate that these ideas are generally not novel, and were certainly developed well before any pressure from DNA arguments—they arose from the Book of Mormon text itself.
- Absurd claim: Some LDS DNA apologists, for example, are world-class experts in their field. These authors object to the misappropriate and misapplication of science, including that found in the work here under review:
- Michael F. Whiting, "DNA and the Book of Mormon: A Phylogenetic Perspective," Journal of Book of Mormon Studies 12/1 (2003). [24–35] link
- John M. Butler, "Addressing Questions surrounding the Book of Mormon and DNA Research," FARMS Review 18/1 (2006): 101–108. off-site wiki
- John M. Butler, "A Few Thoughts From a Believing DNA Scientist," Journal of Book of Mormon Studies 12/1 (2003). [36–37] link
- D. Jeffrey Meldrum and Trent D. Stephens, "Who Are the Children of Lehi?," Journal of Book of Mormon Studies 12/1 (2003). [38–51] link
- Note that the author merely dismisses these experts, he does not engage their evidence or arguments.
143
Claim
- Most members follow their leaders without question.
Author's source(s) - No sources given.
- Most bishops and stake presidents would find this unlikely, if not laughable.
- The author is a former LDS bishop. Did he go contrary to Church teaching and demand this? If so, his action was wrong. If not, he is evidence against his own claim.
Logical Fallacy: Bandwagon (Appeal to the Masses)—The author believes that this claim is true simply because all of his or her buddies believe that it is true, despite the lack of actual evidence supporting it.
The author frequently makes claims about what "most Mormons" believe. How does he know? What surveys has he done? The author strives to portray members as gullible, ill-informed, confused, and manipulated. But, he presents no evidence save his opinion. Why ought members trust someone who obviously has such a low opinion of them?- Authoritarianism and Church leaders
- Dallin H. Oaks, "Unselfish Service," Ensign (May 2009): 93–96. off-site
143
Claim
- LDS theology supports a literal interpretation of the creation of man.
Author's source(s) - No sources given.
143
Claim
- LDS theology supports a literal interpretation of the tower of Babel.
Author's source(s) - No sources given.
143
Claim
- LDS theology supports a literal interpretation of the Flood
Author's source(s) - No sources given.
143-144
Claim
- The perception is that the Church has officially denounced evolution.
Author's source(s) - McConkie, Mormon Doctrine, 1979.
- Boyd K. Packer, "Our Moral Environment," Ensign, May 1992, p. 66. (This talk does not specifically mention the theory of evolution - Packer is stating that we are not simply "advanced animals," which the author includes in his quote.)
- This perception, however, is false.
- Mormonism and science/Evolution: all official statements.
144
Claim
- Henry Eyring (father of Henry B. Eyring) indicated that he could accept evolution.
Author's source(s) - Henry Eyring, Reflections of a Scientist, 1998.
- If a well-known scientist could publicly express support for evolution and differ with some Church leaders, how does this contribute to the "perception" that the Church has "officially denounced evolution"?
- The book cited was published and distributed to LDS youth—hardly the act of a Church trying to stamp out any support for evolution.
145
Claim
- Eyring "avoided singling out senior leaders of the church for the bad press that evolution has received in LDS circles."
Author's source(s) - Henry Eyring, Reflections of a Scientist, 1998.
- Eyring was not shy about demonstrating where he and (say) President Joseph Fielding Smith differed on this subject.
146
Claim
- The Garden of Eden was in Jackson County, Missouri
Author's source(s) Response
146
Claim
- Mormons believe that the continents separated only after a global flood.
Author's source(s) Response
- Some Mormons believe this. Others do not. The Church has no official view on the matter.
- Mormonism and science/Global or local Flood
146
Claim
- Mormons are "compelled" to believe in a global flood as symbolizing the "baptism of the earth"
Author's source(s) - No sources given.
- Absurd claim: how can Mormons be "compelled" to believe in anything?
- Some Mormons believe this. Others do not. The Church has no official view on the matter.
- Mormonism and science/Global or local Flood
148
Claim
- FARMS' goal is to deter members from reading any book that challenges their faith
Author's source(s) - The author states that this is an "obvious" conclusion.
- Mind reading: author has no way of knowing this.
- Mormonism and education/Church position on reading critical material
Logical Fallacy: Appeal to Emotion—The author attempts to manipulate the reader's emotional response instead of presenting a valid argument.
<Rather than interact with arguments the author labels "apologetic" (i.e., any interpretation which does not suit his naive view of the matter), the author hopes to marginalize them and reject them from consideration by claiming they are somehow novel, contrary to the Book of Mormon's plain meaning, or driven by desperation.Many statements indicate that these ideas are generally not novel, and were certainly developed well before any pressure from DNA arguments—they arose from the Book of Mormon text itself.