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Difference between revisions of "Criticism of Mormonism/Video/8: The Mormon Proposition"
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=Claims= | =Claims= | ||
| − | ==== ==== | + | ====00:10:00==== |
{{IndexClaim | {{IndexClaim | ||
|claim= | |claim= | ||
| − | + | Fred Karger states that Latter-day Saints "didn’t allow blacks in the Church until 1978." | |
|response= | |response= | ||
*{{FalseStatement}} Blacks were baptized and participated as members of the Church. They weren't allowed to hold the ''priesthood'' until 1978. | *{{FalseStatement}} Blacks were baptized and participated as members of the Church. They weren't allowed to hold the ''priesthood'' until 1978. | ||
| Line 23: | Line 23: | ||
*No source provided | *No source provided | ||
}} | }} | ||
| + | |||
| + | ====00:10:52==== | ||
| + | {{IndexClaim | ||
| + | |claim= | ||
| + | Karger claims that there was a meeting between President Hinckley and a Catholic Cardinal "at his estate in Hawaii." | ||
| + | |authorsources= | ||
| + | *No source provided | ||
| + | }} | ||
| + | |||
| + | ====00:16:56==== | ||
| + | {{IndexClaim | ||
| + | |claim= | ||
| + | A woman who is claimed to be a "former Mormon," states that "Mormons believe that their prophet literally is in communication with God, that Jesus Christ appears to their leaders in the Salt Lake Temple." | ||
| + | |authorsources= | ||
| + | *No source provided | ||
| + | }} | ||
| + | |||
| + | ====00:17:37==== | ||
| + | {{IndexClaim | ||
| + | |claim= | ||
| + | A woman who is claimed to be a "former Mormon" states that in the temple "we promise to give of our means and our time to defend the Church and to forward its mission, and we're told that we will lose our eternal salvation if we don't keep that promise." | ||
| + | |authorsources= | ||
| + | *No source provided | ||
| + | }} | ||
| + | |||
| + | ====00:19:38==== | ||
| + | {{IndexClaim | ||
| + | |claim= | ||
| + | The narrator claims that Mormons teach that Heavenly Father was "once a human being," and that after he died, that he "became and god where he began marrying spirit wives and having spirit offspring." | ||
| + | |response= | ||
| + | *{{Detail|Nature of God/"God is a man"}} | ||
| + | *{{Detail|Nature of God/Heavenly Mother}} | ||
| + | *{{Detail|Nature of God/Deification of man}} | ||
| + | |authorsource= | ||
| + | }} | ||
| + | |||
| + | ====00:20:09==== | ||
| + | {{IndexClaim | ||
| + | |claim= | ||
| + | The narrator states that "Mormons believe we, too, can become gods on our own planets, filled with our own spirit wives and children." | ||
| + | |response= | ||
| + | *{{Detail|Nature of God/Deification of man/Gods of their own planets}} | ||
| + | |authorsources= | ||
| + | *No source provided | ||
| + | }} | ||
| + | |||
| + | ====00:21:12==== | ||
| + | {{IndexClaim | ||
| + | |claim= | ||
| + | "Mormon pioneer Frederick Granger Williams" is said to have had three wives, and that as a result of this that his family was "chased across the United States and finally into Mexico by mobs of evangelical Christians." | ||
| + | |response= | ||
| + | |authorsources= | ||
| + | *No source provided | ||
| + | }} | ||
| + | |||
| + | ====00:26:18==== | ||
| + | {{IndexClaim | ||
| + | |claim= | ||
| + | It is claimed that some Church leaders (bishops and stake presidents) brought members' tithing records to their homes and told them, ""This is how much you make. This is how much we think you can give. Give this much money, give this much time or you face disfellowshipment. You might lose your callings. You might lose your membership." | ||
| + | |response= | ||
| + | |authorsources= | ||
| + | *No source provided. | ||
| + | }} | ||
| + | |||
| + | ====00:27:35==== | ||
| + | {{IndexClaim | ||
| + | |claim= | ||
| + | It is claimed that families "dug into their retirement funds" and "used their kids' college funds" to support Prop 8. One example is given of a family in Sacramento that "gave $50,000" by closing out their college fund for their "five small children, all under the age of nine." | ||
| + | |response= | ||
| + | |authorsources= | ||
| + | *No source provided | ||
| + | }} | ||
| + | |||
| + | ====00:29:14==== | ||
| + | {{IndexClaim | ||
| + | |claim= | ||
| + | The Church is claimed to have "set up a specific post-office box for all the Mormon money to go to" in order to "bundle all the contributions together so they could actually check off to make sure that everyone had given what he committed to give." | ||
| + | |response= | ||
| + | |authorsources= | ||
| + | *No source provided | ||
| + | }} | ||
| + | |||
| + | ====00:33:58==== | ||
| + | {{IndexClaim | ||
| + | |claim= | ||
| + | It is claimed that LDS advertisements were "designed to mislead and misinform" and that they were "designed to recruit people of other faiths." | ||
| + | |response= | ||
| + | |authorsources= | ||
| + | *No source provided | ||
| + | }} | ||
| + | |||
| + | ====00:35:33==== | ||
| + | {{IndexClaim | ||
| + | |claim= | ||
| + | In demonstrating that "religions can set their own rules," the film states that "the LDS church can still ban African-Americans from their temples." | ||
| + | |response= | ||
| + | |authorsources= | ||
| + | *No source provided | ||
| + | }} | ||
| + | |||
| + | ====00:37:06==== | ||
| + | {{IndexClaim | ||
| + | |claim= | ||
| + | It is claimed that during the last week of the Prop 8 campaign, that "over $3 million came in from Utah alone to influence this California election." | ||
| + | |response= | ||
| + | |authorsources= | ||
| + | *No source provided | ||
| + | }} | ||
| + | |||
| + | ====00:38:12==== | ||
| + | {{IndexClaim | ||
| + | |claim= | ||
| + | A group of noisy and rude anti-Prop 8 protesters are shown in San Francisco. One man states that they were bussed in, and that "I heard there's people from Utah." They then show interactions with the protesters, who turn out to be the same "street preachers" that demonstrate outside of General Conference. | ||
| + | |response= | ||
| + | |authorsources= | ||
| + | }} | ||
| + | |||
| + | ====00:49:05==== | ||
| + | {{IndexClaim | ||
| + | |claim= | ||
| + | Bruce R. McConkie "made a statement several years ago to the youth of the Church that it would be better to be dead than to be homosexual." | ||
| + | |response= | ||
| + | |authorsources= | ||
| + | *No source provided | ||
| + | }} | ||
| + | |||
| + | ====00:49:15==== | ||
| + | {{IndexClaim | ||
| + | |claim= | ||
| + | Utah is claimed to have "one of the highest suicide rates in the world." It is stated that a "disproportionately large number" of these are gay Latter-day Saints. | ||
| + | |response= | ||
| + | *{{Detail|Statistical claims/Suicide rate among Mormons}} | ||
| + | |authorsources= | ||
| + | *No source provided | ||
| + | }} | ||
| + | |||
| + | |||
| + | |||
==== ==== | ==== ==== | ||
Revision as of 13:57, 2 September 2010
- REDIRECTTemplate:Test3
| A FAIR Analysis of:
8: The Mormon Proposition |
Claims
00:10:00
Claim
Fred Karger states that Latter-day Saints "didn’t allow blacks in the Church until 1978."
Author's source(s)
- No source provided
Response
- The author's claim is false Blacks were baptized and participated as members of the Church. They weren't allowed to hold the priesthood until 1978.
- In fact, it was the publication by W. W. Phelps of the article "Free People of Color" in the The Evening and the Morning Star, published in Independence, Missouri, that precipitated the destruction of the press by a mob, since Missouri was a slave state. The Missourians perceived that Phelps was outlining the process by which free blacks could come to Missouri.
- For a detailed response, see: Mormonism and racial issues/Blacks and the priesthood
00:10:52
Claim
Karger claims that there was a meeting between President Hinckley and a Catholic Cardinal "at his estate in Hawaii."
Author's source(s)
- No source provided
Response
FAIR WIKI EDITORS: Check sources
00:16:56
Claim
A woman who is claimed to be a "former Mormon," states that "Mormons believe that their prophet literally is in communication with God, that Jesus Christ appears to their leaders in the Salt Lake Temple."
Author's source(s)
- No source provided
Response
FAIR WIKI EDITORS: Check sources
00:17:37
Claim
A woman who is claimed to be a "former Mormon" states that in the temple "we promise to give of our means and our time to defend the Church and to forward its mission, and we're told that we will lose our eternal salvation if we don't keep that promise."
Author's source(s)
- No source provided
Response
FAIR WIKI EDITORS: Check sources
00:19:38
Claim
The narrator claims that Mormons teach that Heavenly Father was "once a human being," and that after he died, that he "became and god where he began marrying spirit wives and having spirit offspring."
Response
- For a detailed response, see: Nature of God/"God is a man"
- For a detailed response, see: Nature of God/Heavenly Mother
- For a detailed response, see: Nature of God/Deification of man
00:20:09
Claim
The narrator states that "Mormons believe we, too, can become gods on our own planets, filled with our own spirit wives and children."
Author's source(s)
- No source provided
Response
- For a detailed response, see: Nature of God/Deification of man/Gods of their own planets
00:21:12
Claim
"Mormon pioneer Frederick Granger Williams" is said to have had three wives, and that as a result of this that his family was "chased across the United States and finally into Mexico by mobs of evangelical Christians."
Author's source(s)
- No source provided
Response
FAIR WIKI EDITORS: Check sources
00:26:18
Claim
It is claimed that some Church leaders (bishops and stake presidents) brought members' tithing records to their homes and told them, ""This is how much you make. This is how much we think you can give. Give this much money, give this much time or you face disfellowshipment. You might lose your callings. You might lose your membership."
Author's source(s)
- No source provided.
Response
FAIR WIKI EDITORS: Check sources
00:27:35
Claim
It is claimed that families "dug into their retirement funds" and "used their kids' college funds" to support Prop 8. One example is given of a family in Sacramento that "gave $50,000" by closing out their college fund for their "five small children, all under the age of nine."
Author's source(s)
- No source provided
Response
FAIR WIKI EDITORS: Check sources
00:29:14
Claim
The Church is claimed to have "set up a specific post-office box for all the Mormon money to go to" in order to "bundle all the contributions together so they could actually check off to make sure that everyone had given what he committed to give."
Author's source(s)
- No source provided
Response
FAIR WIKI EDITORS: Check sources
00:33:58
Claim
It is claimed that LDS advertisements were "designed to mislead and misinform" and that they were "designed to recruit people of other faiths."
Author's source(s)
- No source provided
Response
FAIR WIKI EDITORS: Check sources
00:35:33
Claim
In demonstrating that "religions can set their own rules," the film states that "the LDS church can still ban African-Americans from their temples."
Author's source(s)
- No source provided
Response
FAIR WIKI EDITORS: Check sources
00:37:06
Claim
It is claimed that during the last week of the Prop 8 campaign, that "over $3 million came in from Utah alone to influence this California election."
Author's source(s)
- No source provided
Response
FAIR WIKI EDITORS: Check sources
00:38:12
Claim
A group of noisy and rude anti-Prop 8 protesters are shown in San Francisco. One man states that they were bussed in, and that "I heard there's people from Utah." They then show interactions with the protesters, who turn out to be the same "street preachers" that demonstrate outside of General Conference.
Response
FAIR WIKI EDITORS: Check sources
00:49:05
Claim
Bruce R. McConkie "made a statement several years ago to the youth of the Church that it would be better to be dead than to be homosexual."
Author's source(s)
- No source provided
Response
FAIR WIKI EDITORS: Check sources
00:49:15
Claim
Utah is claimed to have "one of the highest suicide rates in the world." It is stated that a "disproportionately large number" of these are gay Latter-day Saints.
Author's source(s)
- No source provided
Response
- For a detailed response, see: Statistical claims/Suicide rate among Mormons
Claim
- The following quote by George Q. Cannon is displayed:
"How will these be stopped? Only by the destruction of those who practice them. The only way is...for the Lord to wipe them out."
George Q. Cannon, Mormon Apostle
"How will these be stopped? Only by the destruction of those who practice them. The only way is...for the Lord to wipe them out."
George Q. Cannon, Mormon Apostle
Author's source(s)
- Source not provided in the video.
- The quote is found in Conference Report, October 1897, Afternoon Session
Response
- The quote in context with the portions used in the film highlighted:
In England a short time ago a man who had posed in society as a man of culture and of taste, and who lectured upon esthetics, was found to be guilty of a most abominable crime a crime for which under the old law the penalty was death; a crime which was practiced by the nations of old, and caused God to command their destruction and extirpation. This crime was proved against this man, and some of his associates were what are called noblemen. He was sent to prison. His term of imprisonment having expired, he comes from prison, and is now engaged, it is so published, in writing a book, and, we suppose is received into society, though guilty of this nameless crime. And is this common; If we may believe that which is told to us, without going into researches ourselves, it and other kindred wickedness, is far too common. The same sin that caused the utter destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah! This and other abominable crimes are being practiced. How will these be stopped? Only by the destruction of those who practice them. Why, if a little nest of them were left that were guilty of these things, they would soon corrupt others, as some are being corrupted among us. In coming to these mountains we hoped to find a place where we could live secluded from the abominations of Babylon. But here in this secluded place wickedness intrudes itself, and is practiced in this land which we have dedicated to the Lord as a land of Zion! How can this be stopped? Not while those who have knowledge of these filthy crimes exist. The only way, according to all that I can understand as the word of God, is for the Lord to wipe them out, that there will be none left to perpetuate the knowledge of these dreadful practices among the children of men. And God will do it, as sure as He has spoken by the mouths of His prophets. He will destroy the wicked, and those who will be left will be like the Nephites after the wicked were all killed off; they were righteous men and women who lived for over two hundred years according to the law of heaven.
- Elder Cannon refers to "it and other kindred wickedness, is far too common. The same sin that caused the utter destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah!"
- Note the omission of the phrase: "The only way, according to all that I can understand as the word of God,is for the Lord to wipe them out." The omitted phrase makes it clear that Elder Cannon was offering his own opinion based upon his understanding of the scriptures, and not claiming to be the voice of God on the matter.