Difference between revisions of "Detailed response to CES Letter, Witnesses"

(→‎"It doesn’t matter because of this one simple fact: Joseph did not use the gold plates for translating the Book of Mormon": mod)
(→‎James Strang and the Voree Plates Witnesses: change to known source)
Line 235: Line 235:
 
#had one who later denounced his project as mere "human invention"
 
#had one who later denounced his project as mere "human invention"
 
#had one who later confessed to helping fabricate the plates
 
#had one who later confessed to helping fabricate the plates
−
*According to Daniel C. Peterson {{ref|peterson1}}:
+
*Wrote Daniel C. Peterson in "Defending the Faith: The story behind James Strang and his sect," ''Deseret News'' (9 June 2011) {{link|url=http://www.deseretnews.com/article/705374177/The-story-behind-James-Strang-and-his-sect.html?pg=all}}
 
<blockquote>
 
<blockquote>
−
Forgery is the virtually certain explanation for the two sets of inscribed metal plates that James Jesse Strang said he had found in Wisconsin and Michigan (between 1845 and 1849) and translated. Strang, who claimed to have a letter of appointment from Joseph Smith, announced himself as Joseph Smith's successor and was clearly seeking to imitate the Prophet. That his plates really existed is beyond serious dispute. The first set, the three “Voree” or “Rajah Manchou” plates, were dug up by four “witnesses” whom Strang had brought to the appropriate site.  
+
The two sets of inscribed plates that Strang claimed to have found in Wisconsin and Michigan beginning in 1845 almost certainly existed. Milo Quaife's early, standard biography of Strang reflects that, while Strang's angelic visitations "may have had only a subjective existence in the brain of the man who reported them, the metallic plates possessed a very material objective reality."
 
<br><br>
 
<br><br>
−
Inscribed on both sides with illustrations and “writing,” the Rajah Manchou plates were roughly 1.5 by 2.75 inches in size&mdash;small enough to fit in the palm of a hand or to carry in a pocket. Among the many who saw them was Stephen Post, who reported that they were brass and, indeed, that they resembled the French brass used in familiar kitchen kettles. “With all the faith & confidence that I could exercise,” he wrote, “all that I could realize was that Strang made the plates himself, or at least that it was possible that he made them.”
+
And they were almost certainly forgeries.
 
<br><br>
 
<br><br>
−
One source reports that most of the four witnesses to the Rajah Manchou plates ultimately repudiated their testimonies. (However, the credibility of this source is suspect, since it also asserts that the Book of Mormon witnesses repudiated their testimonies, which is demonstrably false). The eighteen “Plates of Laban,” likewise of brass and each about 7 3/8 by 9 inches, were first mentioned in 1849 and, in 1851, were seen by seven witnesses. Their testimony appeared at the front of ''The Book of the Law of the Lord'', which Strang said he translated from the “Plates of Laban.” (Work on the translation seems to have begun at least as early as April 1849. An 84-page version appeared in 1851; by 1856, it had reached 350 pages.)
+
The first set, the three "Voree" or "Rajah Manchou" plates, were dug up by four "witnesses" whom Strang had taken to the plates' burial place. Illustrated and inscribed on both sides, the Rajah Manchou plates were roughly 1.5 by 2.75 inches in size — small enough to fit in the palm of a hand or to carry in a pocket.
 
<br><br>
 
<br><br>
−
'''The statement of Strang's witnesses speaks of seeing the plates, but mentions nothing of any miraculous character, nor did Strang supply any second set of corroborating testimony comparable to that of the Three Witnesses to the Book of Mormon. One of the witnesses to the “Plates of Laban,” Samuel P. Bacon, eventually denied the inspiration of Strang's movement and denounced it as mere “human invention.” Another, Samuel Graham, later claimed that he had assisted Strang in the fabrication of the “Plates of Laban.”'''
+
Among the many who saw them was Stephen Post, who reported that they were brass and, indeed, that they resembled the French brass used in familiar kitchen kettles. "With all the faith & confidence that I could exercise," he wrote, "all that I could realize was that Strang made the plates himself, or at least that it was possible that he made them." One source reports that most of the four witnesses to the Rajah Manchou plates ultimately repudiated their testimonies.
 
<br><br>
 
<br><br>
−
The well-read Strang had been an editor and lawyer before his brief affiliation with the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints and his subsequent career as a schismatic leader.{{ref|fn1}}
+
The 18 "Plates of Laban," likewise of brass and each about 7.5 by 9 inches, were first mentioned in 1849 and were seen by seven witnesses in 1851. These witnesses' testimony was published as a preface to "The Book of the Law of the Lord," which Strang said he derived from the "Plates of Laban." (He appears to have begun the "translation" at least as early as April 1849. An 84-page version appeared in 1851; by 1856, it had reached 350 pages.) Strang's witnesses report seeing the plates, but mention nothing miraculous. Nor did Strang supply any additional supporting testimony comparable to that of the Three Witnesses to the Book of Mormon.
 
<br><br>
 
<br><br>
−
Thus, Strang's plates were much less numerous than those associated with Joseph Smith, his witnesses saw nothing supernatural, his translation required the better part of a decade rather than a little more than two months, and, unlike the Witnesses to the Book of Mormon, Strang's witnesses did not remain faithful to their testimonies. Milo Quaife, in his early, standard biography of Strang, reflected that “It is quite conceivable that Strang's angelic visitations may have had only a subjective existence in the brain of the man who reported them. But the metallic plates possessed a very material objective reality.” If we are unwilling to accept The Book of the Law of the Lord as authentically divine, he says, “we can hardly escape the conclusion . . . that Strang knowingly fabricated and 'planted' them for the purpose of duping his credulous followers” and, accordingly, that “Strang's prophetic career was a false and impudent imposture.” {{ref|fn2}}
+
One of the witnesses to the "Plates of Laban," Samuel P. Bacon, eventually denied the inspiration of Strang's movement and denounced it as mere "human invention." Another, Samuel Graham, later claimed that he had actually assisted Strang in the creation of the plates.
 
<br><br>
 
<br><br>
−
Roger Van Noord, Strang's most recent biographer, concludes that, “Based on the evidence, it is probable that Strang&mdash;or someone under his direction&mdash;manufactured the letter of appointment and the brass plates to support his claim to be a prophet and to sell land at Voree. If this scenario is correct, Strang's advocacy of himself as a prophet was more than suspect, but no psychological delusion.”{{ref|fn3}}
+
"We can hardly escape the conclusion," writes Quaife, "that Strang knowingly fabricated and planted them for the purpose of duping his credulous followers" and, accordingly, that "Strang's prophetic career was a false and impudent imposture." A more recent biographer, Roger Van Noord, concludes that "based on the evidence, it is probable that Strang — or someone under his direction — manufactured the letter of appointment and the brass plates to support his claim to be a prophet and to sell land at Voree. If this scenario is correct, Strang's advocacy of himself as a prophet was more than suspect, but no psychological delusion."
 +
<br><br>
 +
Thus, Strang's plates were much less numerous than those of the Book of Mormon, his witnesses saw nothing supernatural and his translation required the better part of a decade rather than a little more than two months. (Quite unlike the semi-literate Joseph Smith, Strang was well-read. He had been an editor and lawyer before his involvement with Mormonism.) Perhaps most strikingly, unlike the witnesses to the Book of Mormon, some (at least) of Strang's witnesses later denied their testimonies.
 +
<br><br>
 +
The contrasts work very much in Joseph Smith's favor.
 
</blockquote>
 
</blockquote>
 
}}
 
}}

Revision as of 09:51, 31 July 2013

  1. REDIRECTTemplate:Test3


[[../Priesthood Restoration Concerns & Questions|Priesthood Restoration Concerns & Questions]]
A FAIR Analysis of:
[[../|Letter to a CES Director]]
 		[[../Temples & Freemasonry Concerns & Questions|Temples & Freemasonry Concerns & Questions]]


A FAIR Analysis of the online document Letter to a CES Director section "Witnesses Concerns & Questions"

The Book of Mormon is no fake. I know what I know. I have seen what I have seen and I have heard what I have heard. I have seen the gold plates from which the Book of Mormon is written. An angel appeared to me and others and testified to the truthfulness of the record, and had I been willing to have perjured myself and sworn falsely to the testimony I now bear I could have been a rich man, but I could not have testified other than I have done and am now doing for these things are true.
—Martin Harris, shortly before his death. [1]
I have never at any time, denied that testimony or any part thereof, which has so long since been published with that book as one of the three witnesses. Those who know me best, well know that I have adhered to that testimony. And that no man may be misled or doubt my present views in regard to the same, I do now again affirm the truth of all my statement[s], as then made and published.
—David Whitmer, seven years before his death. [2]
I wrote, with my own pen, the entire Book of Mormon (save a few pages) as it fell from the lips of the Prophet Joseph, as he translated it by the gift and power of God, by the means of the Urim and Thummim, or as it is called by the book, Holy Interpreters. I beheld with my eyes, and handled with my hands, the gold plates from which it was transcribed. I also saw with my eyes and handled with my hands the Holy Interpreters. That book is true.
—Oliver Cowdery, two years before his death. [3]
∗       ∗       ∗

Quick Navigation

Response Section

Magical Worldview

Template:CESLetterItem

Witnesses

Template:CESLetterItem

Martin Harris

Template:CESLetterItem

Template:CESLetterItem

Template:CESLetterItem

Template:CESLetterItem

David Whitmer

David Whitmer's gravestone, upon which is engraved his testimony of the Book of Mormon: "The record of the Jews and the record of the Nephites are one."

Template:CESLetterItem

Oliver Cowdery

Template:CESLetterItem

Second Sight

Template:CESLetterItem

James Strang and the Voree Plates Witnesses

Template:CESLetterItem

No Document of Actual Signatures

Template:CESLetterItem

"James Strang’s claims and Voree Plates Witnesses are distinctive and more impressive compared to the Book of Mormon Witnesses"

Template:CESLetterItem

"the fact that all of the Book of Mormon Witnesses – except Martin Harris – were related to either Joseph Smith or David Whitmer"

Template:CESLetterItem

"in light of their superstitions and reputations"

Template:CESLetterItem

"The mistake that is made by 21st century Mormons is that they’re seeing the Book of Mormon Witnesses as empirical, rational, twenty-first century men"

Template:CESLetterItem

"It doesn’t matter because of this one simple fact: Joseph did not use the gold plates for translating the Book of Mormon"

Template:CESLetterItem

== Notes ==

  1. [note] George Godfrey, “Testimony of Martin Harris,” from an unpublished manuscript copy in the possession of his daughter, Florence (Godfrey) Munson of Fielding, Utah; quoted in Eldin Ricks, The Case of the Book of Mormon Witnesses (Salt Lake City: Deseret News Press, 1971), 65–66.
  2. [note] "David Whitmer Proclamation, 19 March 1881," Early Mormon Documents 5:69
  3. [note] Andrew Jenson, LDS Biographical Encyclopedia (Salt Lake City: Andrew Jenson History Company, 1901), 1:246.
  4. [note] George Godfrey, “Testimony of Martin Harris,” from an unpublished manuscript copy in the possession of his daughter, Florence (Godfrey) Munson of Fielding, Utah; quoted in Eldin Ricks, The Case of the Book of Mormon Witnesses (Salt Lake City: Deseret News Press, 1971), 65–66.
  5. [note] "David Whitmer Proclamation, 19 March 1881," Early Mormon Documents 5:69
  6. [note] Andrew Jenson, LDS Biographical Encyclopedia (Salt Lake City: Andrew Jenson History Company, 1901), 1:246.
  7. [note]  The base text for this wiki article came from a FAIR board posting, Daniel C. Peterson, “Case of the Missing Golden Plates,” FAIR message boards, Posted on: Jan 22 2006, 02:12 PM.
  8. [note]  Peterson here cites See Roger Van Noord, King of Beaver Island: The Life and Assassination of James Jesse Strang (Urbana: University of Illinois Press, 1988), 33–35, 97, 102, 163, 219; Doyle C. Fitzpatrick, The King Strang Story: A Vindication of James J. Strang, the Beaver Island Mormon [sic] King (Lansing, MI: National Heritage, 1970), 34–38; Milo M. Quaife, The Kingdom of Saint James: A Narrative of the Mormons [sic] (New Haven: Yale University Press, 1930), 2–8, 16–19, 92–93, 185–189.
  9. [note]  Peterson cites Quaife, The Kingdom of Saint James, 17–18.
  10. [note]  Peterson cites Van Noord, King of Beaver Island, 274.
  11. [note] "David Whitmer Proclamation, 19 March 1881," Early Mormon Documents 5:69.
  12. [note] Andrew Jenson, LDS Biographical Encyclopedia (Salt Lake City: Andrew Jenson History Company, 1901), 1:246.
  13. [note] George Godfrey, “Testimony of Martin Harris,” from an unpublished manuscript copy in the possession of his daughter, Florence (Godfrey) Munson of Fielding, Utah; quoted in Eldin Ricks, The Case of the Book of Mormon Witnesses (Salt Lake City: Deseret News Press, 1971), 65–66.
Retrieved from "https://www.fairlatterdaysaints.org/answers/index.php?title=Detailed_response_to_CES_Letter%2C_Witnesses&oldid=102412"