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Difference between revisions of "Detailed response to CES Letter, Witnesses"
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*“I did not see them uncovered, but I handled them and hefted them while wrapped in a tow frock.” – EMD 1:497 | *“I did not see them uncovered, but I handled them and hefted them while wrapped in a tow frock.” – EMD 1:497 | ||
|answer= | |answer= | ||
| − | *{{ | + | *{{Incorrect}} The statement "I did not see them uncovered, but I handled them and hefted them while wrapped in a tow frock," is from William Smith, Joseph's brother. ''William Smith was not one of the three or eight witnesses who were allowed to view the plates.'' He was only allowed to view and pick up the plates when they were covered. How does this demonstrate "second sight"? |
| − | *The author also provided an incorrect reference for this statement (we provide the correct reference below). | + | *{{Misquoted Source}}The author also provided an incorrect reference for this statement (we provide the correct reference below). |
*The reference given by the author is ''EMD'' 1:497, which is "William Smith, On Mormonism, 1883," ''Early Mormon Documents'' 1:497. The quote that the author attributes to this passage does not exist within this document, however, William makes a similar statement in this passage. | *The reference given by the author is ''EMD'' 1:497, which is "William Smith, On Mormonism, 1883," ''Early Mormon Documents'' 1:497. The quote that the author attributes to this passage does not exist within this document, however, William makes a similar statement in this passage. | ||
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He replied, <span style="color:blue">"I did not see them uncovered, but I handled them and hefted them while wrapped in a tow frock</span> and judged them to have weighed about sixty pounds. I could tell they were plates of some kind and that they were fastened together by rings running through the back. Their size was as described in mother's history." | He replied, <span style="color:blue">"I did not see them uncovered, but I handled them and hefted them while wrapped in a tow frock</span> and judged them to have weighed about sixty pounds. I could tell they were plates of some kind and that they were fastened together by rings running through the back. Their size was as described in mother's history." | ||
</blockquote> | </blockquote> | ||
| − | *William Smith's statement actually ''confirms that Joseph did have something in his possession'' that fit the dimensions, form, and weight of the plates he claimed to have. So William, although not a direct witness, is an accessory who confirms Joseph Smith's story. | + | *{{fact}}William Smith's statement actually ''confirms that Joseph did have something in his possession'' that fit the dimensions, form, and weight of the plates he claimed to have. So William, although not a direct witness, is an accessory who confirms Joseph Smith's story. |
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Revision as of 23:00, 10 December 2013
- REDIRECTTemplate:Test3
Contents
- 1 Response to "Witnesses Concerns & Questions"
- 1.1 Quick Navigation
- 1.2 Response Section
- 1.2.1 Magical Worldview
- 1.2.2 Witnesses
- 1.2.3 Martin Harris
- 1.2.4
- 1.2.5
- 1.2.6
- 1.2.7 David Whitmer
- 1.2.8 Oliver Cowdery
- 1.2.9 Second Sight
- 1.2.10 James Strang and the Voree Plates Witnesses
- 1.2.11 No Document of Actual Signatures
- 1.2.12 "James Strang’s claims and Voree Plates Witnesses are distinctive and more impressive compared to the Book of Mormon Witnesses"
- 1.2.13 "the fact that all of the Book of Mormon Witnesses – except Martin Harris – were related to either Joseph Smith or David Whitmer"
- 1.2.14 "in light of their superstitions and reputations"
- 1.2.15 "The mistake that is made by 21st century Mormons is that they’re seeing the Book of Mormon Witnesses as empirical, rational, twenty-first century men"
- 1.2.16 "It doesn’t matter because of this one simple fact: Joseph did not use the gold plates for translating the Book of Mormon"
Response to "Witnesses Concerns & Questions"
| [[../Priesthood Restoration Concerns & Questions|Priesthood Restoration Concerns & Questions]] | A FAIR Analysis of:
[[../|Letter to a CES Director]] |
[[../Temples & Freemasonry Concerns & Questions|Temples & Freemasonry Concerns & Questions]] |
The Book of Mormon is no fake. I know what I know. I have seen what I have seen and I have heard what I have heard. I have seen the gold plates from which the Book of Mormon is written. An angel appeared to me and others and testified to the truthfulness of the record, and had I been willing to have perjured myself and sworn falsely to the testimony I now bear I could have been a rich man, but I could not have testified other than I have done and am now doing for these things are true.
—Martin Harris, shortly before his death. [1]
I have never at any time, denied that testimony or any part thereof, which has so long since been published with that book as one of the three witnesses. Those who know me best, well know that I have adhered to that testimony. And that no man may be misled or doubt my present views in regard to the same, I do now again affirm the truth of all my statement[s], as then made and published.
—David Whitmer, seven years before his death. [2]
I wrote, with my own pen, the entire Book of Mormon (save a few pages) as it fell from the lips of the Prophet Joseph, as he translated it by the gift and power of God, by the means of the Urim and Thummim, or as it is called by the book, Holy Interpreters. I beheld with my eyes, and handled with my hands, the gold plates from which it was transcribed. I also saw with my eyes and handled with my hands the Holy Interpreters. That book is true.
—Oliver Cowdery, two years before his death. [3]
It was a clear, open beautiful day, far from any inhabitants, in a remote field, at the time we saw the record, of which it has been spoken, brought and laid before us, by an angel, arrayed in glorious light, [who] ascend [descended I suppose] out of the midst of heaven. Now if this is human juggling—judge ye.
—Oliver Cowdery, November 1829. [4]
- Response to section: Magical Worldview
- Response to section: Witnesses
- Response to section: Martin Harris
- Response to section: David Whitmer
- Response to section: Oliver Cowdery
- Response to section: Second Sight
- Response to section: James Strang and the Voree Plates Witnesses
- Response to section: No Document of Actual Signatures
- Response to section: "James Strang’s claims and Voree Plates Witnesses are distinctive and more impressive compared to the Book of Mormon Witnesses"
- Response to section: "the fact that all of the Book of Mormon Witnesses – except Martin Harris – were related to either Joseph Smith or David Whitmer"
- Response to section: "in light of their superstitions and reputations"
- Response to section: "The mistake that is made by 21st century Mormons is that they’re seeing the Book of Mormon Witnesses as empirical, rational, twenty-first century men"
- Response to section: "It doesn’t matter because of this one simple fact: Joseph did not use the gold plates for translating the Book of Mormon"
Response Section
Magical Worldview
Witnesses
Martin Harris
David Whitmer
David Whitmer's gravestone, upon which is engraved his testimony of the Book of Mormon: "The record of the Jews and the record of the Nephites are one."
Oliver Cowdery
Second Sight
James Strang and the Voree Plates Witnesses
No Document of Actual Signatures
"James Strang’s claims and Voree Plates Witnesses are distinctive and more impressive compared to the Book of Mormon Witnesses"
"in light of their superstitions and reputations"
"The mistake that is made by 21st century Mormons is that they’re seeing the Book of Mormon Witnesses as empirical, rational, twenty-first century men"
"It doesn’t matter because of this one simple fact: Joseph did not use the gold plates for translating the Book of Mormon"
== Notes ==
- [note] George Godfrey, “Testimony of Martin Harris,” from an unpublished manuscript copy in the possession of his daughter, Florence (Godfrey) Munson of Fielding, Utah; quoted in Eldin Ricks, The Case of the Book of Mormon Witnesses (Salt Lake City: Deseret News Press, 1971), 65–66.
- [note] "David Whitmer Proclamation, 19 March 1881," Early Mormon Documents 5:69
- [note] Andrew Jenson, LDS Biographical Encyclopedia (Salt Lake City: Andrew Jenson History Company, 1901), 1:246.
- [note] Oliver Cowdery and Martin Harris, in letter dated 29 November 1829, quoted in Corenlius C. Blatchly, "THE NEW BIBLE, written on plates of Gold or Brass," Gospel Luminary 2/49 (10 Dec. 1829): 194.
- [note] George Godfrey, “Testimony of Martin Harris,” from an unpublished manuscript copy in the possession of his daughter, Florence (Godfrey) Munson of Fielding, Utah; quoted in Eldin Ricks, The Case of the Book of Mormon Witnesses (Salt Lake City: Deseret News Press, 1971), 65–66.
- [note] "David Whitmer Proclamation, 19 March 1881," Early Mormon Documents 5:69
- [note] Andrew Jenson, LDS Biographical Encyclopedia (Salt Lake City: Andrew Jenson History Company, 1901), 1:246.
- [note] "David Whitmer Proclamation, 19 March 1881," Early Mormon Documents 5:69.
- [note] Oliver Cowdery and Martin Harris, in letter dated 29 November 1829, quoted in Corenlius C. Blatchly, "THE NEW BIBLE, written on plates of Gold or Brass," Gospel Luminary 2/49 (10 Dec. 1829): 194.
- [note] Andrew Jenson, LDS Biographical Encyclopedia (Salt Lake City: Andrew Jenson History Company, 1901), 1:246.
- [note] George Godfrey, “Testimony of Martin Harris,” from an unpublished manuscript copy in the possession of his daughter, Florence (Godfrey) Munson of Fielding, Utah; quoted in Eldin Ricks, The Case of the Book of Mormon Witnesses (Salt Lake City: Deseret News Press, 1971), 65–66.