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Specific works/DNA Evidence for Book of Mormon Geography (DVD)/Joseph had revelation: Difference between revisions
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==FIRM Foundation insists that Joseph knew by revelation== | ==FIRM Foundation insists that Joseph knew by revelation== | ||
A constant theme is the idea that Joseph Smith ''knew'' the location of the Book of Mormon via revelation: "That is my bottom line. Joseph knew."{{ | A constant theme is the idea that Joseph Smith ''knew'' the location of the Book of Mormon via revelation: "That is my bottom line. Joseph knew."<ref>{{DVD:Meldrum:2008|section=1|time=final words of "Joseph Smith" presentation, time stamp 38:17 to end}}</ref> | ||
[[Image:Joseph_KNEW_Meldrum_screenshot.png|frame|center|Screen shot of FIRM Foundation FAQ, spelling, color, size, and punctuation as in original.{{ | [[Image:Joseph_KNEW_Meldrum_screenshot.png|frame|center|Screen shot of FIRM Foundation FAQ, spelling, color, size, and punctuation as in original.<ref>DNA Evidence for Book of Mormon Geography, "Frequently Asked Questions," ''bookofmormonevidence.org'' (accessed 7 April 2009) {{link|url=http://www.bookofmormonevidence.org/FAQ.php}}</ref>]] | ||
Wrote the head of the FIRM Foundation: | Wrote the head of the FIRM Foundation: | ||
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:[2] Did Joseph Smith have revelatory knowledge of the geography of the Book of Mormon? Emphatically YES. | :[2] Did Joseph Smith have revelatory knowledge of the geography of the Book of Mormon? Emphatically YES. | ||
:[3] Is there a conflict? No, because Joseph did not disseminate that knowledge to us, therefore the statements of modern-day prophets stand as absolutely true.{{ | :[3] Is there a conflict? No, because Joseph did not disseminate that knowledge to us, therefore the statements of modern-day prophets stand as absolutely true.<ref>Rod Meldrum, comment on FAIR blog (4 Sept 2008, 23h39) {{link|url=http://www.fairblog.org/2008/09/03/examining-the-secular-side/#comment-5346}}</ref> | ||
===The problem=== | ===The problem=== | ||
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:::i) To be entitled to do so, as you are doing; and | :::i) To be entitled to do so, as you are doing; and | ||
:::ii) To receive money for doing it?{{ | :::ii) To receive money for doing it?<ref>Robert White, comment on FAIR blog (5 Sept 2008, 7h57) {{link|url=http://www.fairblog.org/2008/09/03/examining-the-secular-side/#comment-5367}}</ref> | ||
It should also be noted that Joseph Smith made some statements that are not consistent with the FIRM Foundation's stance—which either means that Joseph was not speaking based upon revelation, or the FIRM Foundation's model is wrong. | It should also be noted that Joseph Smith made some statements that are not consistent with the FIRM Foundation's stance—which either means that Joseph was not speaking based upon revelation, or the FIRM Foundation's model is wrong. | ||
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{{main|Book_of_Mormon_geography/Statements/Joseph_Smith|Book_of_Mormon_geography/Statements|Book_of_Mormon_geography/Statements/No_revealed_geography|l1=Joseph Smith statements|l2=Church leader statements|l3=No revealed geography statements}} | {{main|Book_of_Mormon_geography/Statements/Joseph_Smith|Book_of_Mormon_geography/Statements|Book_of_Mormon_geography/Statements/No_revealed_geography|l1=Joseph Smith statements|l2=Church leader statements|l3=No revealed geography statements}} | ||
=={{Endnotes label}} | == == | ||
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[[fr:Specific works/DNA Evidence for Book of Mormon Geography (DVD)/Joseph had revelation]] | [[fr:Specific works/DNA Evidence for Book of Mormon Geography (DVD)/Joseph had revelation]] | ||
Revision as of 19:54, 7 June 2014
| DNA science: error and misrepresentation | A FAIR Analysis of: DNA Evidence for Book of Mormon Geography (DVD); Introduction to Book of Mormon Evidences (Seminar) A work by author: The FIRM Foundation
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BYU criticized for teaching evolution |
FIRM Foundation insists that Joseph knew by revelation
A constant theme is the idea that Joseph Smith knew the location of the Book of Mormon via revelation: "That is my bottom line. Joseph knew."[1]
Wrote the head of the FIRM Foundation:
- [1] So, do WE have definitive revelatory knowledge of the geography of the Book of Mormon? Emphatically NO.
- [2] Did Joseph Smith have revelatory knowledge of the geography of the Book of Mormon? Emphatically YES.
- [3] Is there a conflict? No, because Joseph did not disseminate that knowledge to us, therefore the statements of modern-day prophets stand as absolutely true.[3]
The problem
The author seems unable or unwilling to recognize the fundamental problem here. As one respondent noted:
- Points 2 and 3 are one of the two cores of your insurmountable problem.
- a. How do you know (point 1) that Joseph Smith had “revelatory knowledge of the geography of the Book of Mormon? Emphatically YES.”?
- b. Why did he not “disseminate that knowledge to us”?
- c. Given that the Prophets and Apostles are not disseminating any such revelatory knowledge that you allege, why don’t they?
- d. Given:
- i) that the Prophets and Apostles do not claim that Joseph Smith had “revelatory knowledge of the geography of the Book of Mormon? Emphatically YES.” and
- ii) that the Brethren do not disseminate any such knowledge to us or disseminate it,
- e) On what basis do you claim to know that Joseph Smith had revelatory knowledge that the Brethren do not acknowledge, and in fact say is not the case? In short, how do you claim knowledge of revelations that are not claimed by the Apostles and Prophets?
- f) Finally, given that the Prophets and Apostles do not and will not teach that “Joseph Smith had “revelatory knowledge of the geography of the Book of Mormon? Emphatically YES.” what is the basis of your claim:
- i) To be entitled to do so, as you are doing; and
- ii) To receive money for doing it?[4]
It should also be noted that Joseph Smith made some statements that are not consistent with the FIRM Foundation's stance—which either means that Joseph was not speaking based upon revelation, or the FIRM Foundation's model is wrong.
Notes
- ↑ Meldrum, DVD (2007), Sect #1, final words of "Joseph Smith" presentation, time stamp 38:17 to end.
- ↑ DNA Evidence for Book of Mormon Geography, "Frequently Asked Questions," bookofmormonevidence.org (accessed 7 April 2009) off-site
- ↑ Rod Meldrum, comment on FAIR blog (4 Sept 2008, 23h39) off-site
- ↑ Robert White, comment on FAIR blog (5 Sept 2008, 7h57) off-site