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Difference between revisions of "Criticism of Mormonism/Books/One Nation Under Gods/Chapter 7"
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| − | + | David Whitmer said that Joseph Smith claimed that "[s]ome revelations are of God: some revelations are of man: and some revelations are of the devil" | |
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*David Whitmer, ''An Address to All Believers in Christ'', 31. | *David Whitmer, ''An Address to All Believers in Christ'', 31. | ||
*{{s||DC|46|7}} | *{{s||DC|46|7}} | ||
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| + | {{:Question: How does David Whitmer's account of the attempt to sell the Book of Mormon copyright compare to those of the eyewitnesses?}} | ||
| + | {{:Question: How did Latter-day Saint scholars respond to the attempt to sell the Book of Mormon copyright prior to Page's letter coming to light?}} | ||
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====127-8, 528n5 (PB)==== | ====127-8, 528n5 (PB)==== | ||
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Revision as of 12:03, 2 November 2014
- REDIRECTTemplate:Test3
Contents
- 1 Response to claims made in "Chapter 7: Woe In Ohio"
- 1.4.1 Book of Mormon Central, KnoWhy #556: Why Did Joseph Smith Attempt to Secure the Book of Mormon Copyright in Canada? (Video)
- 1.4.2 Whitmer's account is at variance in several ways with Hiram Page’s account
- 1.4.3 Page, an eyewitness, makes no mention at disappointment in Joseph Smith, nor is there any mention of a "false prophecy"
- Did Joseph say that "[f]ifty-six years should wind up the scene" before the second coming of Jesus Christ?
- Were the revelations published in the 1835 Doctrine and Covenants "amended, added to, excised, and in some cases assigned different historical settings" as claimed by Michael Marquardt?
- Did Joseph break Ohio law by marrying Newel Knight to "undivorced Lydia G. Baily," despite having no license to perform marriages in Ohio?
- Did Joseph perform marriages for people who had not obtained marriage licenses from the State of Ohio?
- Does History of the Church claim that instead, they were only married "according to the rules and regulations of the Church of the Latter-day Saints?"
- Was Kirtland, as Fawn Brodie claimed, "full of converts who had left behind them spouses who could not be persuaded to join the church?"
- Author's quote: Disruptions of the family unit and marriage break-ups are often seen among religious groups termed "cults."
- Author's quote: [E]x-Mormons have reported that LDS leaders/counselors commonly encourage divorce when the spouse of a faithful Mormon forsakes the faith."
- Did Levi Lewis claim that Joseph tried to seduce Eliza Winters in 1830?
- Were LDS men encouraged to take plural wives "of the Lamanites and Nephites" in order to make them "white, delightsome and just?"
- Author's quote: "Although Smith never took any Lamanites as wives, he did begin establishing what would gradually become a fairly large harem of young girls and women taken from his flock of 'white and delightsome' disciples."
- Joseph's first polyamous marriage was with Fanny Alger.
- Did William McLellin report that Joseph and Fanny were found "in the barn together alone...?"
- Was the inclusion of the statement on marriage in the 1835 D&C was "an attempt to cover-up the Smith-Alger affair" as the author claims?
- Did land specuation in Kirtland "consume" the "thoughts of nearly every Saint, including [Joseph] Smith?"
- Joseph is claimed to have owned one hundred and forty acres of land near the Kirtland temple lot in addition to four acres of business property.
- Was Isaac McWithy brought before the church's High Council on charges of "insolence" after refusing to sell his land to Joseph Smith for $3000?
- Author's quote: "Smith decided to solve his economic dilemma by establishing a bank for the purpose of land speculation."
- Did Joseph Smith claim that "God told him" to establish the bank in Kirtland?
- Was the Kirtland anti-bank backed only by boxes "filled with 'sand,lead, old iron, stone, and combustibles" as claimed by Fawn Brodie?
- Is it true that "[e]veryone's pockets bulged with bills" in Kirtland after the bank was established as asserted by Fawn Brodie?
Response to claims made in "Chapter 7: Woe In Ohio"
| Claims made in "Chapter 6: No rest for the Righteous" | A FAIR Analysis of: One Nation Under Gods A work by author: Richard Abanes
|
Claims made in "Chapter 8: Big Trouble In Little Missouri" |
Smith decided to solve his economic dilemma by establishing a bank for the purpose of land speculation.
—One Nation Under Gods, p. 135. (paperback edition)
127 epigraph, 527n1 (PB) - David Whitmer said that Joseph Smith claimed that "[s]ome revelations are of God: some revelations are of man: and some revelations are of the devil"
The author(s) of One Nation Under Gods make(s) the following claim:
David Whitmer said that Joseph Smith claimed that "[s]ome revelations are of God: some revelations are of man: and some revelations are of the devil"Author's sources:
- David Whitmer, An Address to All Believers in Christ, 31.
- DC 46꞉7
FAIR's Response
Question: How does David Whitmer's account of the attempt to sell the Book of Mormon copyright compare to those of the eyewitnesses?
Book of Mormon Central, KnoWhy #556: Why Did Joseph Smith Attempt to Secure the Book of Mormon Copyright in Canada? (Video)
Whitmer's account is at variance in several ways with Hiram Page’s account
Whitmer's account is at variance in several ways with Hiram Page’s account. Whitmer gets the destination city in Canada wrong (he says Toronto, the other accounts, and the revelation itself, say Kingston) and he did not correctly identify all of the participants (he identified Hiram Page and Oliver Cowdery, while Page noted Joseph Knight and Josiah Stowell). Note that the text of the revelation itself finally clears up the issue of exactly who the revelation was directed to,
...it Pleaseth me that Oliver Cowderey Joseph Knight Hyram Page
e& Josiah Stowel shall do my work in this thing...
Page, an eyewitness, makes no mention at disappointment in Joseph Smith, nor is there any mention of a "false prophecy"
Page also makes no mention or even a hint at disappointment in Joseph Smith, nor is there an accusation that the trip was based upon a "false prophecy," so naturally no subsequent "revelation" is noted by Page explaining the mission’s failure.
In Whitmer’s 1887 account we learn for the first time of the supposed post-mission revelation where Joseph Smith is told that some revelations are from God, some from devils, some from men. This account is in all likelihood a fabrication. Unlike his consistent, life-long statements concerning the witness of the Gold Plates, this account, which is probably a second-hand retelling of events 57 years after their occurrence, suddenly appears and is wrong on several of the documentable facts, as well as being inconsistent with the first-hand testimony of Hiram Page, given 40 years earlier than Whitmer and by comparison much closer to the actual event.
Question: How did Latter-day Saint scholars respond to the attempt to sell the Book of Mormon copyright prior to Page's letter coming to light?
Book of Mormon Central, KnoWhy #556: Why Did Joseph Smith Attempt to Secure the Book of Mormon Copyright in Canada? (Video)
B.H. Roberts expressed doubt as to the accuracy of the story, and suggested that David Whitmer may not have recalled all of the details correctly
The letter from 1848 by Hiram Page was not publically available until the 20th Century. As a result, various LDS responses to the accounts by Whitmer and McLellin of necessity must explain why the apparent anomalous revelation does not make Joseph Smith a fallen prophet. Such was the case when B.H. Roberts expressed doubt as to the accuracy of the story, and suggested that David Whitmer may not have recalled all of the details correctly, yet went on to address the claim anyway. Roberts concluded:
Does that circumstance vitiate his claim as a prophet? No; the fact remains that despite this circumstance there exists a long list of events to be dealt with which will establish the fact of divine inspiration operating upon the mind of this man Joseph Smith. The wisdom frequently displayed, the knowledge revealed, the predicted events and the fulfilment thereof, are explicable upon no other theory than of divine inspiration giving guidance to him. [1]
As it happens, the passage of time and the uncovering of additional information has vindicated that confidence.
127-8, 528n5 (PB)
Claim
- Did Joseph say that "[f]ifty-six years should wind up the scene" before the second coming of Jesus Christ?
Author's source(s) - History of the Church, 2:182. Volume 2 link
- History of the Church, 5:336. Volume 5 link
128-9, 528n10 (PB)
Claim
- Were the revelations published in the 1835 Doctrine and Covenants "amended, added to, excised, and in some cases assigned different historical settings" as claimed by Michael Marquardt?
Author's source(s) - H. Michael Marquardt, The Joseph Smith Revelations: Text & Commentary, xv.
129, 529n14-15 (PB)
Claim
- Did Joseph break Ohio law by marrying Newel Knight to "undivorced Lydia G. Baily," despite having no license to perform marriages in Ohio?
Author's source(s) - D. Michael Quinn, The Mormon Hierarchy: Origins of Power (Signature Books, 1994), 88..
- The author's claim is false: No law was broken, and marriage certificates were issued by the state of Ohio; no license was required to perform marriages, since any religious leader had a right to perform marriages in Ohio.
- Ohio marriages illegal?
129, 529n17 (PB)
Claim
- Did Joseph perform marriages for people who had not obtained marriage licenses from the State of Ohio?
- Does History of the Church claim that instead, they were only married "according to the rules and regulations of the Church of the Latter-day Saints?"
Author's source(s) - History of the Church, 2:377–378. Volume 2 link
- Misrepresentation of source: Joseph gave couples marriage certificates?
- The author's claim is false: Ohio marriages illegal?
129, 529n16 (PB)
Claim
- Was Kirtland, as Fawn Brodie claimed, "full of converts who had left behind them spouses who could not be persuaded to join the church?"
Author's source(s) - Fawn M. Brodie, No Man Knows My History: The Life of Joseph Smith (New York: Alfred A. Knopf, 1945), 183. ( Index of claims )
- The author includes a direct, attributed quote from Brodie's book, however, this upon examining the source one finds that this is only Brodie's own opinion—She does not provide a source to back up this claim.
529n16 (PB)
Claim
- Author's quote: Disruptions of the family unit and marriage break-ups are often seen among religious groups termed "cults."
- Author's quote: [E]x-Mormons have reported that LDS leaders/counselors commonly encourage divorce when the spouse of a faithful Mormon forsakes the faith."
Author's source(s) - No sources provided for this claim.
- The author's claim is false: Church leaders do not advise divorce under these circumstances.
- Note that the author takes the opportunity to classify the Church as a "cult" based upon this supposition.
- Loaded and prejudicial language
130, 530n22 (PB)
Claim
- Did Levi Lewis claim that Joseph tried to seduce Eliza Winters in 1830?
Author's source(s) - Levi Lewis, Susquehanna Register, May 1, 1834 reprinted in Howe, Mormonism Unvailed, 268.
131, 530n23-24 (PB)
Claim
- Were LDS men encouraged to take plural wives "of the Lamanites and Nephites" in order to make them "white, delightsome and just?"
Author's source(s) - Marquardt, 375.
- Jerald and Sandra Tanner, The Changing World of Mormonism (Moody Press, 1979), 210.( Index of claims )
132 (PB)
Claim
- Author's quote: "Although Smith never took any Lamanites as wives, he did begin establishing what would gradually become a fairly large harem of young girls and women taken from his flock of 'white and delightsome' disciples."
Author's source(s) - No source provided.
132, 530-531n29-36 (PB)
Claim
- Joseph's first polyamous marriage was with Fanny Alger.
Author's source(s) - Andrew Jenson, 233.
- Benjamin F. Johnson, letter to George S. Gibbs, 1903.
- Richard S. Van Wagoner, Mormon Polygamy: A History (Salt Lake City: Signature Books, 1989), 6-7.
- Todd Compton, In Sacred Loneliness: The Plural Wives of Joseph Smith (Salt Lake City: Signature Books, 1997), 31-34. ( Index of claims )
133, 531n37-40 (PB)
Claim
- Did William McLellin report that Joseph and Fanny were found "in the barn together alone...?"
Author's source(s) - Todd Compton, In Sacred Loneliness: The Plural Wives of Joseph Smith (Salt Lake City: Signature Books, 1997), 35. ( Index of claims )
- Ann Elza Web Young, Wife No. 19, 66-67.
133, n42 (PB)
Claim
- Was the inclusion of the statement on marriage in the 1835 D&C was "an attempt to cover-up the Smith-Alger affair" as the author claims?
Author's source(s) - D&C 1835, 251.
- Polygamy/1835 Doctrine and Covenants denies polygamy
- Fanny Alger: affair or marriage?
- Loaded and prejudicial language
- Criticism of Mormonism/Books/Mind reading
135, 531n45 (PB)
Claim
- Did land specuation in Kirtland "consume" the "thoughts of nearly every Saint, including [Joseph] Smith?"
Author's source(s) - Heber C. Kimball, "History of Heber Chase Kimball by his own Dictation," 47-48 quote in Jessee, 397-398.
- The citation does not support the author's assertion that this involved "nearly every Saint, including Smith."
- The endnote quotes Kimball as saying, "we were much grieved to see the spirit of speculation prevailing in the church..." Kimball doesn't say anything about Joseph Smith's involvment. He does state that, "all seemed determined to become rich; in my feelings they were artificial or imaginary riches." A more complete quote is included in the endnote.
- Mind reading
135, 531n46-48 (PB)
Claim
- Joseph is claimed to have owned one hundred and forty acres of land near the Kirtland temple lot in addition to four acres of business property.
Author's source(s) - Robert Kent Fielding, "The Growth of the Mormon Church in Kirtland, Ohio," Unpublished Ph.D. dissertation, Indiana University, 1957, typed copy, 202-204. 206-208, 211-212. Quoted in Jerald and Sandra Tanner, The Mormon Kingdom, vol. 1, 9.
- Unfortunately, the primary sources used by Fielding and Tanner are not provided.
- This was Church land which Joseph held in trust.
- Use of sources: Joseph owned 144 acres in Kirtland
- Criticism of Mormonism/Books/Presentism
531n48 (PB)
Claim
- Was Isaac McWithy brought before the church's High Council on charges of "insolence" after refusing to sell his land to Joseph Smith for $3000?
Author's source(s) - History of the Church, 2:446. Volume 2 link
135 (PB)
Claim
- Author's quote: "Smith decided to solve his economic dilemma by establishing a bank for the purpose of land speculation."
Author's source(s) 136, 532n51 (PB)
Claim
- Did Joseph Smith claim that "God told him" to establish the bank in Kirtland?
Author's source(s) - Fawn M. Brodie, No Man Knows My History: The Life of Joseph Smith (New York: Alfred A. Knopf, 1945), 195. ( Index of claims ), citing Warren Parrish, letter dated March 6, 1838, Zion's Watchman, March 24, 1838
- The author paraphrases Brodie's assertion that "The bank was said to have been established by a revelation from God..."
- Brodie can provide no evidence, save an angry apostate after the fact, who contradicted his own testimony. Why do contemporary sources say that Joseph did not tell them what the Lord said?
- Use of sources: Warren Parrish and Kirtland Safety Society "revelation"
- Kirtland Safety Society
136, 532n54 (PB)
Claim
- Was the Kirtland anti-bank backed only by boxes "filled with 'sand,lead, old iron, stone, and combustibles" as claimed by Fawn Brodie?
Response- This quote is from Brodie, who in turn cites three hostile anti-Mormon sources: Wilhelm Wyl, Mormon Portraits Volume First: Joseph Smith the Prophet, His Family and Friends (Salt Lake City: Tribune Printing and Publishing Co., 1886), 36.; Oliver H. Olney, The Absurdities of Mormonism Portrayed (Hancock County, IL: N.p., 1843), 4.; E. G. Lee, The Mormons, or Knavery Exposed (Frankford, Philadelphia: Webber & Fenimore, 1841), 14. off-site Full title.
- Who do none of the contemporary complaints about the bank include these charges? Why do they only appear years later?
- The bank safe was too small to accommodate the boxes described by the critics.
- Money boxes filled with sand?
136, 532n56 (PB)
Claim
- Is it true that "[e]veryone's pockets bulged with bills" in Kirtland after the bank was established as asserted by Fawn Brodie?
Author's source(s) - Fawn M. Brodie, No Man Knows My History: The Life of Joseph Smith (New York: Alfred A. Knopf, 1945), 196. ( Index of claims )
- The author quotes Brodie's opinion. Brodie provides no citation to back up the assertion that "everyone's pockets bulged with bills."
Further reading
| Template code | Inserts this reference | Click to edit |
|---|---|---|
| {{To learn more box:responses to: 8: The Mormon Proposition}} | To learn more box:responses to: 8: The Mormon Proposition | edit |
| {{To learn more box:''Under the Banner of Heaven''}} | To learn more about responses to: Under the Banner of Heaven | edit |
| {{To learn more box:responses to: Robert Price}} | To learn more about responses to: Robert Price | edit |
| {{To learn more box:responses to: Ankerberg and Weldon}} | To learn more about responses to: Ankerberg and Weldon | edit |
| {{To learn more box:responses to: Ashamed of Joseph}} | To learn more about responses to: Ashamed of Joseph | edit |
| {{To learn more box:responses to: Beckwith and Moser}} | To learn more about responses to: Beckwith and Moser | edit |
| {{To learn more box:responses to: Beckwith and Parrish}} | To learn more about responses to: Beckwith and Parrish | edit |
| {{To learn more box:responses to: Benjamin Park}} | To learn more about responses to: Benjamin Park | edit |
| {{To learn more box:responses to: Bible versus Joseph Smith}} | To learn more about responses to: Bible versus Joseph Smith | edit |
| {{To learn more box:responses to: Bible versus Book of Mormon}} | To learn more about responses to: Bible versus Book of Mormon | edit |
| {{To learn more box:responses to: ''Big Love''}} | To learn more about responses to: Big Love | edit |
| {{To learn more box:responses to: Brett Metcalfe}} | To learn more about responses to: Brett Metcalfe | edit |
| {{To learn more box:responses to: Bill Maher}} | To learn more about responses to: Bill Maher | edit |
| {{To learn more box:responses to: Bruce H. Porter}} | To learn more about responses to: Bruce H. Porter | edit |
| {{To learn more box:responses to: Carol Wang Shutter}} | To learn more about responses to: Carol Wang Shutter | edit |
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| {{To learn more box:responses to: D. Michael Quinn}} | To learn more about responses to: D. Michael Quinn | edit |
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| {{To learn more box:responses to: George D Smith}} | To learn more about responses to: George D Smith | edit |
| {{To learn more box:responses to: Grant Palmer}} | To learn more about responses to: Grant Palmer | edit |
| {{To learn more box:responses to: Hank Hanegraaff}} | To learn more about responses to: Hank Hanegraaff | edit |
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| {{To learn more box:responses to: Jesus Christ-Joseph Smith or Search for the Truth DVD}} | To learn more about responses to: Jesus Christ-Joseph Smith or Search for the Truth DVD | edit |
| {{To learn more box:responses to: John Dehlin}} | To learn more about responses to: John Dehlin | edit |
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| {{To learn more box:responses to: Martha Beck}} | To learn more about responses to: Martha Beck | edit |
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| {{To learn more box:responses to: New Approaches}} | To learn more about responses to: New Approaches to the Book of Mormon | edit |
| {{To learn more box:responses to: Richard Abanes}} | To learn more about responses to: Richard Abanes | edit |
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