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Mormonism and the nature of God/"No God beside me": Difference between revisions
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==Criticism== | ==Criticism== | ||
Mainstream Christian critics claim that the Mormon doctrine of the [[Godhead_and_the_Trinity|Godhead]] and belief in [[Deification of man|theosis]] are not | Mainstream Christian critics claim that the Mormon doctrine of the [[Godhead_and_the_Trinity|Godhead]] and belief in [[Deification of man|theosis]] are not compatible with multiple statements in Isaiah that "beside [the Lord] there is no God." These passages include {{s||Isaiah|43|10-11}}; {{s||Isaiah|44|6,8}}; {{s||Isaiah|45|5-6}}; {{s||Isaiah|45|21-22}}; and {{s||Isaiah|46|9-10}}. | ||
===Source(s) of the criticism=== | ===Source(s) of the criticism=== | ||
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==Response== | ==Response== | ||
({{s||Isaiah|44|6}}) reads: | ({{s||Isaiah|44|6}}) reads: | ||
: | : Thus saith the LORD the King of Israel, and his redeemer the LORD of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God. | ||
Passages such as Isa 44:6,8 and 45:5,21 that read "no God beside me" or a variation of that phrase are traditionally interpreted by mainstream anti-Mormons as meaning that other than Yahweh no form of deity exists at all, including exalted men. This type of interpretation at first seems obvious, but after considering similar passages in other parts of scripture it is clear that this interpretation is incorrect. | |||
For example, ({{s||Isaiah|47|8-10|}}) depicts the city of Babylon as saying: | For example, ({{s||Isaiah|47|8-10|}}) depicts the city of Babylon as saying: | ||
: | : Therefore hear now this, thou that art given to pleasures, that dwellest carelessly, that sayest in thine heart, I am, and '''none else beside me'''; I shall not sit as a widow, neither shall I know the loss of children: | ||
: | : For thou hast trusted in thy wickedness: thou hast said, None seeth me. Thy wisdom and thy knowledge, it hath perverted thee; and thou hast said in thine heart, I am, and '''none else beside me'''. | ||
These passages use the exact same phrase as Isa 44 and 45, yet they certainly do not exclude the existence of any city other than Babylon. The city of Ninevah would be very upset if this were the case, as Zepheniah depicts Ninevah in ({{s||Zephaniah|2|15|}}) as saying: | These passages use the exact same phrase as Isa 44 and 45, yet they certainly do not exclude the existence of any city other than Babylon. The city of Ninevah would be very upset if this were the case, as Zepheniah depicts Ninevah in ({{s||Zephaniah|2|15|}}) as saying: | ||
: | : This is the rejoicing city that dwelt carelessly, that said in her heart, I am, and '''there is none beside me''': how is she become a desolation, a place for beasts to lie down in! every one that passeth by her shall hiss, and wag his hand. | ||
Again it is clear that this phrase does not exclude the very existence of other cities. Using these parallel phrases makes it clear that Isaiah is not excluding the very existence of any other deity when he quotes Yahweh as declaring "there is no God beside me". | Again it is clear that this phrase does not exclude the very existence of other cities. Using these parallel phrases makes it clear that Isaiah is not excluding the very existence of any other deity when he quotes Yahweh as declaring "there is no God beside me". | ||
({{s||Isaiah|43|10|}}) is often a favorite of critics of the LDS doctrine of exaltation. They seem to believe it contradicts this doctrine when it says: | |||
: Ye are my witnesses, saith the LORD, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me. | |||
Whether this passage is referring to false idols who represent deities that do not exist, or whether it refers to real divine beings who exist alongside and subordinate to Yahweh is not crucial for responding to this particular criticism. The passage specifically says "before" and "after" Yahweh. Since Yahweh has always existed, and since He will always exist no man can ever be exalted "before" or "after" Yahweh. All men who are exalted to godhood will be contemporaries of Yahweh, and will never precede nor follow Yahweh's existence. | Whether this passage is referring to false idols who represent deities that do not exist, or whether it refers to real divine beings who exist alongside and subordinate to Yahweh is not crucial for responding to this particular criticism. The passage specifically says "before" and "after" Yahweh. Since Yahweh has always existed, and since He will always exist no man can ever be exalted "before" or "after" Yahweh. All men who are exalted to godhood will be contemporaries of Yahweh, and will never precede nor follow Yahweh's existence. | ||
The main thrust of Isaiah chapters 43-47 is a polemic against the false gods and idols of other nations. When read in the correct context of the overall discussion Isaiah is having, it becomes obvious that Yahweh's remarks are meant to assert his supremacy, authority, and superiority over not only those idols but over all else, including real gods. | The main thrust of Isaiah chapters 43-47 is a polemic against the false gods and idols of other nations. When read in the correct context of the overall discussion Isaiah is having, it becomes obvious that Yahweh's remarks are meant to assert his supremacy, authority, and superiority over not only those idols but over all else, including real gods. | ||
Revision as of 15:47, 2 December 2007
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Criticism
Mainstream Christian critics claim that the Mormon doctrine of the Godhead and belief in theosis are not compatible with multiple statements in Isaiah that "beside [the Lord] there is no God." These passages include Isaiah 43꞉10-11; Isaiah 44꞉6,8; Isaiah 45꞉5-6; Isaiah 45꞉21-22; and Isaiah 46꞉9-10.
Source(s) of the criticism
- Tower to Truth Ministries, "50 Questions to Ask Mormons," towertotruth.net (accessed 15 November 2007). 50 Answers
Response
(Isaiah 44꞉6) reads:
- Thus saith the LORD the King of Israel, and his redeemer the LORD of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God.
Passages such as Isa 44:6,8 and 45:5,21 that read "no God beside me" or a variation of that phrase are traditionally interpreted by mainstream anti-Mormons as meaning that other than Yahweh no form of deity exists at all, including exalted men. This type of interpretation at first seems obvious, but after considering similar passages in other parts of scripture it is clear that this interpretation is incorrect.
For example, (Isaiah 47꞉8-10) depicts the city of Babylon as saying:
- Therefore hear now this, thou that art given to pleasures, that dwellest carelessly, that sayest in thine heart, I am, and none else beside me; I shall not sit as a widow, neither shall I know the loss of children:
- For thou hast trusted in thy wickedness: thou hast said, None seeth me. Thy wisdom and thy knowledge, it hath perverted thee; and thou hast said in thine heart, I am, and none else beside me.
These passages use the exact same phrase as Isa 44 and 45, yet they certainly do not exclude the existence of any city other than Babylon. The city of Ninevah would be very upset if this were the case, as Zepheniah depicts Ninevah in (Zephaniah 2꞉15) as saying:
- This is the rejoicing city that dwelt carelessly, that said in her heart, I am, and there is none beside me: how is she become a desolation, a place for beasts to lie down in! every one that passeth by her shall hiss, and wag his hand.
Again it is clear that this phrase does not exclude the very existence of other cities. Using these parallel phrases makes it clear that Isaiah is not excluding the very existence of any other deity when he quotes Yahweh as declaring "there is no God beside me".
(Isaiah 43꞉10) is often a favorite of critics of the LDS doctrine of exaltation. They seem to believe it contradicts this doctrine when it says:
- Ye are my witnesses, saith the LORD, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me.
Whether this passage is referring to false idols who represent deities that do not exist, or whether it refers to real divine beings who exist alongside and subordinate to Yahweh is not crucial for responding to this particular criticism. The passage specifically says "before" and "after" Yahweh. Since Yahweh has always existed, and since He will always exist no man can ever be exalted "before" or "after" Yahweh. All men who are exalted to godhood will be contemporaries of Yahweh, and will never precede nor follow Yahweh's existence.
The main thrust of Isaiah chapters 43-47 is a polemic against the false gods and idols of other nations. When read in the correct context of the overall discussion Isaiah is having, it becomes obvious that Yahweh's remarks are meant to assert his supremacy, authority, and superiority over not only those idols but over all else, including real gods.
Conclusion
The passages in Isaiah cannot be called upon to disprove LDS beliefs in separate Gods in the Godhead or theosis. The point of them is to encourage Israel to leave off their idols and worship Jehovah alone. Any other use of them distorts Isaiah's meaning and intent.
Further reading
FAIR wiki articles
FAIR web site
- FairMormon Topical Guide: Trinity FairMormon link
External links
- Benjamin McGuire, "Isaiah 43:10" off-site
- Keith L. Sellers, "Why did Isaiah write that the Lord said ‘Beside me there is no God’ and ‘There is none beside me’ (Isa. 44:6; Isa. 45:21) when there are three personages in the Godhead?," Ensign (December 1989): 52.off-site
- Michael S. Heiser, "Monotheism, Polytheism, Monolatry, or Henotheism? Toward an Assessment of Divine Plurality in the Hebrew Bible"off-site