FAIR is a non-profit organization dedicated to providing well-documented answers to criticisms of the doctrine, practice, and history of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.
Difference between revisions of "Mormonism and church organization/Location of the organization"
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===Source(s) of the Criticism=== | ===Source(s) of the Criticism=== | ||
| + | * Walters and Marquardt, ''Inventing Mormonism'' | ||
==Response== | ==Response== | ||
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{{nw}} | {{nw}} | ||
| − | In October 1830, just following his baptism on 19 September 1830, Orson Pratt journeyed from his home in Cannan, New York, to Fayette where he met the Prophet Joseph Smith at the Whitmer farm. | + | In October 1830, just following his baptism on 19 September 1830, Orson Pratt journeyed from his home in Cannan, New York, to Fayette where he met the Prophet Joseph Smith at the Whitmer farm.{{ref|fn1}} |
Of this experience Orson Pratt affirmed: | Of this experience Orson Pratt affirmed: | ||
| − | + | :I well recollect when I was but a boy of nineteen visiting the place where this Church was organized, and visiting the Prophet Joseph, who resided at that time in Fayette, Seneca County, New York, at the house where the Church was organized”.{{ref|pratt1}} | |
| + | Other authors and sources which also argue for a Fayette location include: | ||
| − | “French’s New York Gazetteer, published by R. Pearsall Smith, at Syracuse, New York, [since] 1800, also contained some data concerning Mormonism, and states that the first Mormon society was formed in the town of Fayette, Seneca County, in 1830” | + | * “French’s New York Gazetteer, published by R. Pearsall Smith, at Syracuse, New York, [since] 1800, also contained some data concerning Mormonism, and states that the first Mormon society was formed in the town of Fayette, Seneca County, in 1830”{{ref|fn2}} |
| − | + | * "On April 6, 1830, in the house of Peter Whitmer, Sr., in Fayette, New York, Joseph Smith organized the Church of Jesus Christ."{{ref|eom1}} | |
| − | + | *"On Tuesday, April 6, 1830, under the direction of the Prophet Joseph Smith, a group of friends assembled in Peter Whitmer, Sr.'s log farmhouse [in Fayette, New York] to organize the Church"{{ref|eom2}} | |
| − | "On April 6, 1830, in the house of Peter Whitmer, Sr., in Fayette, New York, Joseph Smith organized the Church of Jesus Christ | ||
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| − | "On Tuesday, April 6, 1830, under the direction of the Prophet Joseph Smith, a group of friends assembled in Peter Whitmer, Sr.'s log farmhouse [in Fayette, New York] to organize the Church" | ||
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| + | Other resources which argue for a Fayette location include: | ||
| + | * {{Ensign|author=John K. Carmack|article=Fayette: The Place the Church Was Organized|date= February 1989|start=14|end=19}}{{nl}} | ||
| + | * {{IE|author=Richard L. Anderson|article=The House Where the Church Was Organized|date=April 1970|start=16|end=19, 21–25}} | ||
Larry C. Porter, “Organizational Origins of the Church of Jesus Christ, 6 April 1830,” in Larry C. Porter, Milton V. Backman, Jr., and Susan Easton Black, eds., ''Regional Studies in Latter-day Saint History: New York'' (Provo: BYU Department of Church History and Doctrine, 1992), 149–62.[Fayette] | Larry C. Porter, “Organizational Origins of the Church of Jesus Christ, 6 April 1830,” in Larry C. Porter, Milton V. Backman, Jr., and Susan Easton Black, eds., ''Regional Studies in Latter-day Saint History: New York'' (Provo: BYU Department of Church History and Doctrine, 1992), 149–62.[Fayette] | ||
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==Conclusion== | ==Conclusion== | ||
| + | |||
| + | ==Endnotes== | ||
| + | |||
| + | #{{note|fn1}}“History of Orson Pratt,” ''Deseret News'', 2 June 1858. | ||
| + | #{{note|pratt1}} {{JD1|vol=13|start=356|author=Orson Pratt}} | ||
| + | #{{note|fn2}} Diedrich Villers, Jr. to Ellen E. Dickinson – published in her book. {{nc}} | ||
| + | #{{note|eom1}} {{EoM1|author=James B. Allen and Richard O. Cowan|article=History of the Church|vol=3|start=603}} | ||
| + | #{{note|eom2}} {{EoM1|author=John K. Carmack|article=Organization of the Church|vol=3|start=1049}} | ||
==Further reading== | ==Further reading== | ||
Revision as of 22:25, 20 December 2006
This article is a draft. FairMormon editors are currently editing it. We welcome your suggestions on improving the content.
Contents
- 1 Criticism
- 2 Response
- 3 Conclusion
- 4 Endnotes
- 5 Further reading
- 6 The early Christian Church and the Great Apostasy
- 7 Evidence of a total apostasy
- 8 Extent of the apostasy
- 9 Reasons why the apostasy occurred
- 10 Mormonism and priesthood
- 11 Restoration of the priesthood
- 12 Administration of priesthood authority
- 13 Criticisms of the Mormon priesthood
Criticism
Source(s) of the Criticism
- Walters and Marquardt, Inventing Mormonism
Response
In October 1830, just following his baptism on 19 September 1830, Orson Pratt journeyed from his home in Cannan, New York, to Fayette where he met the Prophet Joseph Smith at the Whitmer farm.[1]
Of this experience Orson Pratt affirmed:
- I well recollect when I was but a boy of nineteen visiting the place where this Church was organized, and visiting the Prophet Joseph, who resided at that time in Fayette, Seneca County, New York, at the house where the Church was organized”.[2]
Other authors and sources which also argue for a Fayette location include:
- “French’s New York Gazetteer, published by R. Pearsall Smith, at Syracuse, New York, [since] 1800, also contained some data concerning Mormonism, and states that the first Mormon society was formed in the town of Fayette, Seneca County, in 1830”[3]
- "On April 6, 1830, in the house of Peter Whitmer, Sr., in Fayette, New York, Joseph Smith organized the Church of Jesus Christ."[4]
- "On Tuesday, April 6, 1830, under the direction of the Prophet Joseph Smith, a group of friends assembled in Peter Whitmer, Sr.'s log farmhouse [in Fayette, New York] to organize the Church"[5]
Other resources which argue for a Fayette location include:
- John K. Carmack, "Fayette: The Place the Church Was Organized," Ensign (February 1989): 14. (needs URL / links)
- Richard L. Anderson, "The House Where the Church Was Organized," Improvement Era (April 1970), 16–19, 21–25.
Larry C. Porter, “Organizational Origins of the Church of Jesus Christ, 6 April 1830,” in Larry C. Porter, Milton V. Backman, Jr., and Susan Easton Black, eds., Regional Studies in Latter-day Saint History: New York (Provo: BYU Department of Church History and Doctrine, 1992), 149–62.[Fayette]
Paul H. Peterson, [Review of Walters and Marquardt, Inventing Mormonism], Brigham Young University Studies, vol. 35, no. 4, 1995, [Was the Church Organized in Fayette or in Manchester?]
Larry C. Porter, FARMS Review, vol. 7, no. 2, 1995, 135–37 [Fayette]
Richard L. Bushman, FARMS Review, vol. 6, no. 2, 1994, 129–30 [Fayette]
Conclusion
Endnotes
- [note] “History of Orson Pratt,” Deseret News, 2 June 1858.
- [note] Orson Pratt, Journal of Discourses 13:356. off-site wiki
- [note] Diedrich Villers, Jr. to Ellen E. Dickinson – published in her book. [citation needed]
- [note] James B. Allen and Richard O. Cowan, "History of the Church," in Encyclopedia of Mormonism, 4 vols., edited by Daniel H. Ludlow, (New York, Macmillan Publishing, 1992), 3:603.
- [note] John K. Carmack, "Organization of the Church," in Encyclopedia of Mormonism, 4 vols., edited by Daniel H. Ludlow, (New York, Macmillan Publishing, 1992), 3:1049.
Further reading
FAIR wiki articles
The early Christian Church and the Great Apostasy
Jump to Subtopic:
- Evidence of a total apostasy
- Extent of the apostasy
- Reasons why the apostasy occurred
- The office of Apostle within the ancient Church of Jesus Christ
Evidence of a total apostasy
Jump to Subtopic:
- Biblical evidence of an apostasy after Christ
- Evidence of an apostasy after Christ from early Christian history other than the Bible
- Visible evidence of the apostasy
Biblical evidence of an apostasy after Christ
Jump to details:
- Question: Is there any Biblical evidence that the apostasy began?
- Question: Was the apostasy predicted by the Bible not complete?
Evidence of an apostasy after Christ from early Christian history other than the Bible
Summary: Do the Early Church Fathers and other post-Biblical documents shed any light on the apostasy?
Jump to details:
- Question: Is there any evidence of the apostasy from materials from early Christian history besides the Bible?
- Clement of Rome: "For this reason righteousness and peace are now far departed from you"
- Hegesippus: "These also, as there were none of the apostles left, henceforth attempted, without shame to preach their false doctrine against the gospel of truth"
- Ignatius: "the false prophets and the false apostles"
- Irenaeus: "evil is spread abroad among men"
- Tertullian: "Away with all attempts to produce a mottled Christianity of Stoic, Platonic, and dialectic composition!"
- Cyprian: Cyprian argued that since the Saints had sunk to such low levels of depravity they rightly deserved the harsh judgments of God
- Cyril of Jerusalem: "For men have fallen from the right faith; and some preach the identity of the Son with the Father...This, therefore, is the falling away"
Visible evidence of the apostasy
Jump to details:
Extent of the apostasy
Jump to Subtopic:
- Complete apostasy after Christ
- Apostasy and the "gates of hell"
- Priesthood on the earth during the apostasy
Complete apostasy after Christ
Summary: Do other Christian denominations believe that no other church on earth is complete, or is this an arrogant belief assumed only by the "Mormons"?
Jump to details:
- Question: Did Christ establish a Church while on the earth?
- Question: Was the apostasy after Christ complete?
- Question: What is the Catholic view of the apostasy?
- Question: What is the reformation view of the apostasy?
- Question: Do Latter-day Saints believe that no genuine Christians exist outside of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints?
- Scholarly quotes on the historical evidence for apostasy
Apostasy and the "gates of hell"
Summary: Is Jesus' teaching about "the gates of hell" prevailing against "the rock" inconsistent with a belief in a universal apostasy?
Jump to details:
- Question: Does the fact that Jesus said, "upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it" mean that universal apostasy was impossible?
- Question: What are the "gates of hell" or "gates of Hades?"
Priesthood on the earth during the apostasy
Jump to details:
- Question: Was the priesthood on earth during the apostasy?
- Question: Since John the Apostle and the three Nephites did not die, then how could there have been a "complete apostasy" on the earth?
Reasons why the apostasy occurred
Jump to Subtopic:
God permitted the apostasy to occur
Summary: If there were some people who would have accepted the Gospel as taught in Mormonism, why did God allow the earthly Church to pass from the earth?
Jump to details:
Relationship of Mormonism to other branches of Christianity
Summary: What does the apostasy doctrine mean with respect to the relationship of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints to other branches of Christianity?
Jump to details:
- Question: How does the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints relate to other branches of Christianity?
- Non-LDS Christian Stephen H. Webb: Creedal Christians can learn from LDS views about Jesus Christ and creation
The office of Apostle within the ancient Church of Jesus Christ
Jump to details:
- Question: Was Paul a "real" apostle, with authority over the Church like the original Twelve?
- Question: Were the early apostles married?
- Question: Was the Apostle Paul Married?
- Question: Does the Biblical reference by Paul to "apostles and prophets" refer to Church offices?
- Question: Why did Jesus call Twelve Apostles?
Mormonism and priesthood
Jump to Subtopic:
- Restoration of the priesthood
- Administration of priesthood authority
- Criticisms of the Mormon priesthood
Restoration of the priesthood
Jump to Subtopic:
- The manner in which the priesthood was restored
- Date of the restoration of the Melchizedek priesthood
Administration of priesthood authority
Jump to Subtopic:
- Exercising priesthood authority in the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints
- Granting of priesthood authority in the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints
Criticisms of the Mormon priesthood
Jump to Subtopic:
- Criticisms by traditional Christians of the Mormon concept of priesthood
- Claims by ex-Mormons that Church leaders have lost priesthood authority
- Evidence that The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints Possesses Priesthood Authority
FAIR web site
| Apostasy FairMormon articles on-line |
- Roger Keller, "The Apostasy," FAIR 2004 conference. FAIR link
Dr. Keller is a former Presbyterian minister.
| FairMormon Priesthood FairMormon articles on-line |
- John A. Tvedtnes, "Is There a Priesthood of All Believers?" FAIR link
External links
Key sources |
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Navigators |
| Priesthood links to articles |
- Brian Q. Cannon, "Priesthood Restoration Documents," Brigham Young University Studies 35 no. 4 (1995–96), 162. PDF link (Key source)
- Donald Q. Cannon, Larry E. Dahl, and John W. Welch, "The Restoration of Major Doctrines through Joseph Smith: Priesthood, the Word of God, and the Temple," Ensign 19 (February 1989): 7. off-site
- William G. Hartley, "Review of Gregory L. Prince's Power from On High: The Development of Mormon Priesthood," Brigham Young University Studies 37 no. 1 (1997), 225–230.off-site
- John A. Tvedtnes, "Jesus' Apostles and Early Church Organization," Meridian Magazine (2 February 2007)off-site.
Printed material
| Apostasy printed materials |
- Matthew B. Brown, "Evidences of Apostasy," in All Things Restored, 2d ed. (American Fork, UT: Covenant, 2006),1–32. AISN B000R4LXSM. ISBN 1577347129.
- Noel B. Reynolds (editor), Early Christians in Disarray: Contemporary LDS Perspectives on the Christian Apostasy (Provo, Utah: FARMS, 2005), 1. ISBN 0934893020. off-site (Key source)
| Priesthood printed materials |
- Richard Lloyd Anderson, "The Second Witness of Priesthood Restoration," Improvement Era (71/9 (September 1968)), 15–24.
- Richard Lloyd Anderson, "The Second Witness on Priesthood Succession," Improvement Era (September 1968), 14–20.
- Brain Q. Cannon and BYU Studies staff, "Seventy Contemporaneous Priesthood Restoration Documents," in Opening the Heavens: Accounts of Divine Manifestations 1820–1844 (Documents in Latter-day Saint History), edited by John W. Welch with Erick B. Carlson, (Provo, Utah: Brigham Young University Press / Salt Lake City, Utah: Deseret Book Company, 2005), 215–263. ISBN 0842526072. This book has recently been reprinted, in paperback. BYU Studies and Deseret Book (July 13, 2011) (Key source)