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Countercult ministries/The Interactive Bible/Difficult Questions for Mormons/Book of Mormon Script
Response to "Difficult Questions for Mormons: Book of Mormon Script"
| Book of Mormon Geography | A FAIR Analysis of: Difficult Questions for Mormons A work by author: The Interactive Bible
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Book of Mormon Races |
- Response to claim: "Why are Greek names such as Lachoneus, Timothy, Jonas, and Alpha & Omega in a book that should have absolutely no Greek influence?"
- Response to claim: "Why aren't there other examples of "Reformed Egyptian" in Ancient America?"
- Response to claim: "Why doesn't a linguistical relationship exist between any native American language and ancient Egyptian or Hebrew?"
- Response to claim: "How did the Book of Mormon language evolve so rapidly into non-related Indian languages?"
- Response to claim: "Why are only four main types of Mesoamerican writing systems known (and none in pre-Columbus North America): (Aztec, Mixtec, Zapotec, and Maya)?"
- Response to claim: "Why can't the Anthon transcript (which contains copies of the supposed Reformed Egyptian characters) be identified with any forms of Egyptian?"
- Response to claim: "If the Book of Mormon took place outside of Mesoamerica (like in New York where the Hill Cumorah supposedly is), why are written languages of ancient America only found in Mesoamerica?"
- Response to claim: "Why haven't any of the Book of Mormon proper names such as Nephi, Laman, Zarahemla, etc. been found in all of the many writings that have been found in Mesoamerica?"
Response to claim: "Why are Greek names such as Lachoneus, Timothy, Jonas, and Alpha & Omega in a book that should have absolutely no Greek influence?"
The author(s) of Difficult Questions for Mormons make(s) the following claim:
Response to claim: "Why are Greek names such as Lachoneus, Timothy, Jonas, and Alpha & Omega in a book that should have absolutely no Greek influence?"
FAIR's Response
Hugh Nibley on Greek Names in the Book of Mormon: "Syria and Palestine had been in constant contact with the Aegean world"
Hugh Nibley:
The occurrence of the names Timothy and Lachoneus in the Book of Mormon is strictly in order, however odd it may seem at first glance. Since the fourteenth century B.C. at latest, Syria and Palestine had been in constant contact with the Aegean world; and since the middle of the seventh century, Greek mercenaries and merchants closely bound to Egyptian interest (the best Egyptian mercenaries were Greeks) swarmed throughout the Near East.23 Lehi's people, even apart from their mercantile activities, could not have avoided considerable contact with these people in Egypt and especially in Sidon, which Greek poets even in that day were celebrating as the great world center of trade. It is interesting to note in passing that Timothy is an Ionian name, since the Greeks in Palestine were Ionians (hence the Hebrew name for Greeks: "Sons of Javanim"), and—since "Lachoneus" means "a Laconian"—that the oldest Greek traders were Laconians, who had colonies in Cyprus (Book of Mormon Akish) and of course traded with Palestine.24[1]
Response to claim: "Why aren't there other examples of "Reformed Egyptian" in Ancient America?"
The author(s) of Difficult Questions for Mormons make(s) the following claim:
Response to claim: "Why aren't there other examples of "Reformed Egyptian" in Ancient America?"
FAIR's Response
Fact checking results: The author has stated erroneous information or misinterpreted their sources
The term "reformed Egyptian" is not the name of a language. There is no language called "Reformed Egyptian." Moroni used the term "reformed Egyptian" to describe the modified Egyptian style characters he was using to write his record.
Question: What is "reformed Egyptian"?
The term "reformed Egyptian" is the name which the Nephites have given to a script based upon Egyptian characters, and modified over the course of a thousand years
Moroni makes it clear that "reformed Egyptian" is the name which the Nephites have given to a script based upon Egyptian characters, and modified over the course of a thousand years (See Mormon 9:32). So, it is no surprise that Egyptians or Jews have no script called "reformed Egyptian," as this was a Nephite term.
There are, however, several variant Egyptian scripts which are "reformed" or altered from their earlier form
There are, however, several variant Egyptian scripts which are "reformed" or altered from their earlier form. Hugh Nibley and others have pointed out that the change from Egyptian hieroglyphics, to hieratic, to demotic is a good description of Egyptian being "reformed." By 600 BC, hieratic was used primarily for religious texts, while demotic was used for daily use.off-site
One can see how hieroglyphics developed into the more stylized hieratic, and this process continued with the demotic:
What could be a better term for this than an Egyptian script that has been "reformed"?
Examples from the Holy Land 7th and 6th century before Christ
More recent research provides further corroboration:
The fourth presentation at BYU’s Willes Center for Book of Mormon Studies conference on 31 August 2012 was on “Writing in 7th Century BC Levant,” by Stefan Wimmer of the University of Munich. It was entitled “Palestinian Hieratic.” He examined an interesting phenomena in Hebrew inscriptions, the use of Egyptian hieratic (cursive hieroglyphic) signs.
Basically Hebrew scribes used Egyptian signs for various numerals, weights and measures. The changes in the form of these signs parallel similar chronological changes in the form of Egyptian hieratic characters, which indicates continued contact of some sort between Egyptian and Hebrew scribes, probably over several centuries. (If there had been a single scribal transmission with no ongoing contact, the changes in the Hebrew forms of hieratic signs would not parallel contemporary changes in Egyptian hieratic forms.) No other Semitic language used Egyptian hieratic signs except Hebrew (with one possible Moabite example.)
There are a couple of hundred examples of such texts, the majority dating from the late seventh century, and geographically mainly from Jerusalem southward. The phenomena ends after the Babylonian captivity. (In other words, Palestinian hieratic is most common in precisely the time and location of Lehi and Nephi, and only exists in Hebrew.)[2]
Additionally,
Documents from the kingdoms of both Israel and Judah, but not the neighboring kingdoms, of the eighth and seventh centuries contain Egyptian hieratic signs (cursive hieroglyphics) and numerals that had ceased to be used in Egypt after the tenth century (Philip J. King and Lawrence E. Stager, Life in Biblical Israel (Louisville, Kentucky: Westminster John Knox Press, 2001), 311.)
German Egyptologist Stefan Wimmer calls this script "palestinian Hieratic." See Stefan Wimmer, Palästinisches Hieratisch: Die Zahl- und Sonderzeichen in der althebräischen Schrift, Ägypten und Altes Testament 75 (Germany: Harrassowitz Wiesbaden, 2008).
Further examples
William Hamblin provides additional example of such reformation of Egyptian, including:
- Byblos Syllabic texts
- Cretan hieroglyphics
- Meroitic
- Psalm 20 in demotic Egyptian
- Proto-Sinaitic and the alphabet[3]
Given that Moroni says the Nephites then modified the scripts further, "reformed Egyptian" is an elegant description of both the Old World phenomenon, and what Moroni says happened among the Nephites.
Response to claim: "Why doesn't a linguistical relationship exist between any native American language and ancient Egyptian or Hebrew?"
The author(s) of Difficult Questions for Mormons make(s) the following claim:
Response to claim: "Why doesn't a linguistical relationship exist between any native American language and ancient Egyptian or Hebrew?"
FAIR's Response
The author(s) of Difficult Questions for Mormons make(s) the following claim:
Response to claim: "How did the Book of Mormon language evolve so rapidly into non-related Indian languages? Indo-European is much older than the Book of Mormon time period, yet vestiges of Indo-European exist through all of Europe and parts of Asia."
FAIR's Response
Response to claim: "Why are only four main types of Mesoamerican writing systems known (and none in pre-Columbus North America): (Aztec, Mixtec, Zapotec, and Maya)?"
The author(s) of Difficult Questions for Mormons make(s) the following claim:
Response to claim: "Why are only four main types of Mesoamerican writing systems known (and none in pre-Columbus North America): (Aztec, Mixtec, Zapotec, and Maya)?"
FAIR's Response
Response to claim: "Why can't the Anthon transcript (which contains copies of the supposed Reformed Egyptian characters) be identified with any forms of Egyptian?"
The author(s) of Difficult Questions for Mormons make(s) the following claim:
Response to claim: "Why can't the Anthon transcript (which contains copies of the supposed Reformed Egyptian characters) be identified with any forms of Egyptian? The only three Egyptologists that have looked at it say it does not contain any Egyptian (Ferguson Collection, BYU)"
FAIR's Response
Response to claim: "If the Book of Mormon took place outside of Mesoamerica (like in New York where the Hill Cumorah supposedly is), why are written languages of ancient America only found in Mesoamerica?"
The author(s) of Difficult Questions for Mormons make(s) the following claim:
Response to claim: "If the Book of Mormon took place outside of Mesoamerica (like in New York where the Hill Cumorah supposedly is), why are written languages of ancient America only found in Mesoamerica?"
FAIR's Response
Response to claim: "Why haven't any of the Book of Mormon proper names such as Nephi, Laman, Zarahemla, etc. been found in all of the many writings that have been found in Mesoamerica?"
The author(s) of Difficult Questions for Mormons make(s) the following claim:
Response to claim: "Why haven't any of the Book of Mormon proper names such as Nephi, Laman, Zarahemla, etc. been found in all of the many writings that have been found in Mesoamerica?"
FAIR's Response
Fact checking results: This claim contains propaganda - The author, or the author's source, is providing information or ideas in a slanted way in order to instill a particular attitude or response in the reader
Because there are very, very rare texts from Book of Mormon times, and only one from a place that might have been directly related to the Book of Mormon (and that is only a date).Plus, there are some interesting aspects of the naming in the Book of Mormon that the names had narrative purposes, and didn't actually reflect personal names in many cases. Finally, different languages and phonetics render things differently. Mark Wright and Kerry Hull played around with a Maya representation of a purported "Greek" name in the Book of Mormon and found that in Maya it might be "flaming mosquito"--which doesn't sound like it should be a thing--except there are artistic representations of flaming mosquitoes.
Notes
- ↑ Hugh W. Nibley, An Approach to the Book of Mormon, 3rd edition, (Vol. 6 of the Collected Works of Hugh Nibley), edited by John W. Welch, (Salt Lake City, Utah: Deseret Book Company; Provo, Utah: Foundation for Ancient Research and Mormon Studies, 1988), Chapter 22, references silently removed—consult original for citations.
- ↑ William J. Hamblin, "Palestinian Hieratic," Interpreter blog (1 Sept 2012).
- ↑ William J. Hamblin, "Reformed Egyptian," FARMS Review 19/1 (2007): 31–35. off-site wiki