Criticism of Mormonism/Books/An Insider's View of Mormon Origins/Chapter 6


Claims made in "Chapter 5: Moroni and 'The Golden Pot'"
A FAIR Analysis of:
Criticism of Mormonism/Books
A work by author: Grant Palmer
 Claims made in "Chapter 7: Priesthood Restoration"

Claims made in "Chapter 6: Witnesses to the Golden Plates"

Page Claim Response Author's sources

175
  • The witnesses had a "magical mindset" and believed in "second sight"
  • None

175-176
  • The witnesses believed in the ability to see spirits and their dwelling places within the local hills.
  • None

178
  • Martin Harris participated in his own "treasure adventures" after meeting Joseph Smith.
  • Lucy Mack Smith, History of Joseph Smith by His Mother, Lucy Mack Smith (Salt Lake City: Bookcraft, 1958),92, 104.
  • Ezra Booth to Presiding Elder, 8 Nov. 1831, in E. D. Howe, Mormonism Unvailed (Painesville, OH: by the Author, 1834), 186; D&C 110:1.

178
  • Martin Harris said that he could "see things" in the Hill Cumorah.
  • Martin Harris, interview by Joel Tiffany, Jan. 1859, in "Mormonism," Tiffany's Monthly (New York City) 5 (Aug. 1859): 166; quoted in Vogel, Early Mormon Documents, 2:306.

179
  • The Whitmers all believed that they could see things with stones and dowsing sticks.
  • None

179
  • Oliver Cowdery was a treasure hunter and "rodsman" before he met Joseph Smith.
  • Vogel, "Barnes Frisbie Account," Early Mormon Documents, 1:599-621.

179
  • William Cowdery (Oliver's father) was associated with a treasure seeking group in Vermont.
  • Vogel, "Barnes Frisbie Account," Early Mormon Documents, 1:599-621.

179
  • Oliver Cowdery and Martin Harris saw the plates in a vision before meeting Joseph Smith.
  • Martin Harris, interview by Joel Tiffany, Jan. 1859, in "Mormonism," Tiffany's Monthly (New York City) 5 (Aug. 1859): 166; quoted in Vogel, Early Mormon Documents, 2:306.
  • Dean C. Jessee, ed., The Papers of Joseph Smith: Autobiographical and Historical Writings (Salt Lake City: Deseret Book Co., 1989), 1: 10.

181
  • David and possibly John Whitmer owned seer stones.

186
  • The Smith's often told neighbors stories about treasures Joseph found in the earth.
  • Jesse Smith to Hyrum Smith, 17 June 1829, Joseph Smith Letterbook, 2:59-61, LDS archives; quoted in Vogel, Early Mormon Documents, 1:552.

188
  • Joseph claimed to know the location of Captain Kidd's treasure.
  • Statement of W. R. Hine in Deming, Naked Truths 1 Jan. 1888): 2.

191
  • A number of witnesses saw a cave in the Hill Cumorah when the plates were returned to the angel.
  • Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses 19:38..
  • Wilford Woodruff's journal, 1833-98, typescript, ed. Scott G. Kenny, 9 vols. (Midvale, UT: Signature Books, 1984), 11 Dec. 1869, 6:508-9.

194
  • Martin Harris said that marvelous things appeared to Hyrum, Joseph Sr. and Joseph Jr. while they were treasure hunting.
  • Martin Harris, Tiffany's Monthly 5 (Aug. 1859): 165; quoted in Vogel, Early Mormon Documents, 2:305.

194-195
  • The gold plates that the "witnesses" saw are said to have disappeared when placed on the ground at the hill Cumorah.

195
  • The witnesses believed that there was a toad the turned into something else hiding in the box that held the plates.
 The Hurlbut affidavits—Willard Chase

197
  • The author claims that the testimony of the Three Witnesses was of a vision rather than an actual visit by an angel.
  • Jessee, Papers of Joseph Smith 1:296.

197
  • It is claimed that David Whitmer indicated that the visit of the angel was spiritual rather than real.

198
  • Martin Harris claimed to see the plates with "the eye of faith."

200
  • David Whitmer is said to have claimed that he handled the plates in vision, but not physically.

204
  • The author claims that the testimony of the Eight Witnesses does not actually describe a physical incident.

204-205
  • Martin Harris is said to have claimed that none of the witnesses saw or handled the plates.

205
  • Martin Harris is said to have claimed that he never saw or handled the plates.

206
  • The Eight Witnesses are claimed to have hesitated to sign their testimony because their experience was not physical.

206
  • The author claims that the gold plates belong to another world rather than this one.

206
  • The author claims that the plates were able to sink and glide through the ground and made noise as they were "rumbling" through the hill.
  • Martin Harris, quoted in John A. Clark, "Modern Superstition-The Mormonites," 63; quoted in Vogel, Early Mormon Documents, 2:265.
  • Affidavit of Willard Chase, 11 Dec. 1833, in Howe, Mormonism Unvailed.
  • Lucy Smith, History of Joseph Smith, 83-84.

206-207
  • Viewing the gold plates "too soon" would cause physical death.
  • Joseph Smith-History 1:42.
  • Affidavit of Sophia Lewis, 20 Mar. 1834, Susquehanna Register, 1 May 1834, 1.
  • Eber D. Howe, Mormonism Unvailed (Painesville, OH, 1834), 272. (Affidavits examined).

207
  • According to the author, declarations of the witnesses "sounded more physical than was intended."
  • Moses 6:36.
  • D&C 67:10; 131:7.
  • Lucy Smith, History of Joseph Smith, 92.

207
  • It is claimed that Joseph may have fabricated a "plate-like" object to sustain belief in the plates.
  • None

208
  • James Strang also produced witnesses to metal plates.

211
  • Joseph is claimed to have appointed James Strang as his successor.
  • James J. Strang, "Letter from Joseph Smith to James J. Strang," 18 June 1844, in Voree [WI] Herald 1 (Jan. 1846).

213
  • All the living witnesses except Oliver Cowdery accepted James Strang's leadership.

Further reading

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{{To learn more box:responses to: 8: The Mormon Proposition}} To learn more box:responses to: 8: The Mormon Proposition edit
{{To learn more box:''Under the Banner of Heaven''}} To learn more about responses to: Under the Banner of Heaven edit
{{To learn more box:responses to: Robert Price}} To learn more about responses to: Robert Price edit
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{{To learn more box:responses to: Ashamed of Joseph}} To learn more about responses to: Ashamed of Joseph edit
{{To learn more box:responses to: Beckwith and Moser}} To learn more about responses to: Beckwith and Moser edit
{{To learn more box:responses to: Beckwith and Parrish}} To learn more about responses to: Beckwith and Parrish edit
{{To learn more box:responses to: Benjamin Park}} To learn more about responses to: Benjamin Park edit
{{To learn more box:responses to: Bible versus Joseph Smith}} To learn more about responses to: Bible versus Joseph Smith edit
{{To learn more box:responses to: Bible versus Book of Mormon}} To learn more about responses to: Bible versus Book of Mormon edit
{{To learn more box:responses to: ''Big Love''}} To learn more about responses to: Big Love edit
{{To learn more box:responses to: Brett Metcalfe}} To learn more about responses to: Brett Metcalfe edit
{{To learn more box:responses to: Bill Maher}} To learn more about responses to: Bill Maher edit
{{To learn more box:responses to: Bruce H. Porter}} To learn more about responses to: Bruce H. Porter edit
{{To learn more box:responses to: Carol Wang Shutter}} To learn more about responses to: Carol Wang Shutter edit
{{To learn more box:responses to: CES Letter}} To learn more about responses to: CES Letter edit
{{To learn more box:responses to: Charles Larson}} To learn more about responses to: Charles Larson edit
{{To learn more box:responses to: Christopher Nemelka}} To learn more about responses to: Christopher Nemelka edit
{{To learn more box:responses to: Colby Townshed}} To learn more about responses to: Colby Townshed edit
{{To learn more box:responses to: Contender Ministries}} To learn more about responses to: Contender Ministries edit
{{To learn more box:responses to: Crane and Crane}} To learn more about responses to: Crane and Crane edit
{{To learn more box:responses to: D. Michael Quinn}} To learn more about responses to: D. Michael Quinn edit
{{To learn more box:responses to: Dan Vogel}} To learn more about responses to: Dan Vogel edit
{{To learn more box:responses to: David John Buerger}} To learn more about responses to: David John Buerger edit
{{To learn more box:responses to: David Persuitte}} To learn more about responses to: David Persuitte edit
{{To learn more box:responses to: Denver Snuffer}} To learn more about responses to: Denver Snuffer edit
{{To learn more box:responses to: Dick Bauer}} To learn more about responses to: Dick Bauer edit
{{To learn more box:responses to: Duwayne R Anderson}} To learn more about responses to: Duwayne R Anderson edit
{{To learn more box:responses to: Earl Wunderli}} To learn more about responses to: Earl Wunderli edit
{{To learn more box:responses to: Ed Decker}} To learn more about responses to: Ed Decker edit
{{To learn more box:responses to: Erikson and Giesler}} To learn more about responses to: Erikson and Giesler edit
{{To learn more box:responses to: Ernest Taves}} To learn more about responses to: Ernest Taves edit
{{To learn more box:responses to: Fawn Brodie}} To learn more about responses to: Fawn Brodie edit
{{To learn more box:responses to: George D Smith}} To learn more about responses to: George D Smith edit
{{To learn more box:responses to: Grant Palmer}} To learn more about responses to: Grant Palmer edit
{{To learn more box:responses to: Hank Hanegraaff}} To learn more about responses to: Hank Hanegraaff edit
{{To learn more box:responses to: Hurlbut-Howe}} To learn more about responses to: Hurlbut-Howe edit
{{To learn more box:responses to: James Brooke}} To learn more about responses to: James Brooke edit
{{To learn more box:responses to: James Spencer}} To learn more about responses to: James Spencer edit
{{To learn more box:responses to: James White}} To learn more about responses to: James White edit
{{To learn more box:responses to: Jerald and Sandra Tanner}} To learn more about responses to: Jerald and Sandra Tanner edit
{{To learn more box:responses to: Jesus Christ-Joseph Smith or Search for the Truth DVD}} To learn more about responses to: Jesus Christ-Joseph Smith or Search for the Truth DVD edit
{{To learn more box:responses to: John Dehlin}} To learn more about responses to: John Dehlin edit
{{To learn more box:responses to: Jonathan Neville}} To learn more about responses to: Jonathan Neville edit
{{To learn more box:responses to: Kurt Van Gorden}} To learn more about responses to: Kurt Van Gorden edit
{{To learn more box:responses to: Laura King Newell and Valeen Tippetts Avery}} To learn more about responses to: Laura King Newell and Valeen Tippetts Avery edit
{{To learn more box:responses to: Loftes Tryk aka Lofte Payne}} To learn more about responses to: Loftes Tryk aka Lofte Payne edit
{{To learn more box:responses to: Luke WIlson}} To learn more about responses to: Luke WIlson edit
{{To learn more box:responses to: Marquardt and Walters}} To learn more about responses to: Marquardt and Walters edit
{{To learn more box:responses to: Martha Beck}} To learn more about responses to: Martha Beck edit
{{To learn more box:responses to: Mcgregor Ministries}} To learn more about responses to: Mcgregor Ministries edit
{{To learn more box:responses to: McKeever and Johnson}} To learn more about responses to: McKeever and Johnson edit
{{To learn more box:responses to: New Approaches}} To learn more about responses to: New Approaches to the Book of Mormon edit
{{To learn more box:responses to: Richard Abanes}} To learn more about responses to: Richard Abanes edit
{{To learn more box:responses to: Richard Van Wagoner}} To learn more about responses to: Richard Van Wagoner edit
{{To learn more box:responses to: Richard and Joan Ostling}} To learn more about responses to: Richard and Joan Ostling edit
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{{To learn more box:responses to: Rod Meldrum}} To learn more about responses to: Rod Meldrum edit
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{{To learn more box:responses to: Ronald V. Huggins}} To learn more about responses to: Ronald V. Huggins edit
{{To learn more box:responses to: Sally Denton}} To learn more about responses to: Sally Denton edit
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{{To learn more box:responses to: Thomas Murphy}} To learn more about responses to: Thomas Murphy edit
{{To learn more box:responses to: Todd Compton}} To learn more about responses to: Todd Compton edit
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{{To learn more box:responses to: Walter Martin}} To learn more about responses to: Walter Martin edit
{{To learn more box:responses to: Wesley Walters}} To learn more about responses to: Wesley Walters edit
{{To learn more box:responses to: Will Bagley}} To learn more about responses to: Will Bagley edit
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